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High End Luxury Cars

24723 messages,  Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum.

What is this discussion about? Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan



Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.

A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.

Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.

Messages Page 1566 of 2473

#15643 of 24723 Merc by drfill

May 19, 2006 (5:43 pm)

   You were right about C-Class sales. Ok! I missed that one. It sells much more than I thought.
 
   But you are also guilty of lack of research, and saying without knowing!
  
   You seem to like to pick on the GS, as I do the C-Class. For some reason you are quick to jump on BMW's bandwagon, while the E-Class gets passed over easily in comparisons, like it's bretheren, the C-Class (but that's discussion in another post).
  
   You seemed to pick on the Lexus interior, and mentioned it is "Good in a straight line".
 
   Regarding the BMW 540i vs the Lexus GS, and I quote:
 
   Save for it's compacted rear seat, the GS400's interior also received high marks, centered on the ergonaomically-friendly IP; and the backlit, sliver-blue-tinted instruments that automatically adjust to ambient light.
 
   Added to these appealing features is a sticker price of $50,347, the lowest of the group, and more than $5k less than the winning BMW. Based on such numbers (lower price, better skidpad numbers, better braking, better top speed, better economy at 24MPG, slower in 60 and quarter by .10 seconds), one could certainly question the Gs' second place finish.
 
   Suffice it to say that a one-point seperation on scores might be considered a tie. The GS is that good!
 
   Car & Driver, Nov. 1998
 
   Other significant facts:
 
   GS earns C&D "10 Best" in 1999.
 
   GS beats Mercedes & BMW in MT comparison in that year.
 
   GS suffers another incredibly close second in R&T the next year.
 
   Mercedes is beaten every time by Lexus, in performance, and price.
 
   Let's agree on this. If you need facts on Lexus success and history, get a hold of me. If I need Mercedes history and success stories, I'll call you, deal?
 
   And pick one bandwagon and stay on it, ok? When your team loses say, we lost, but we'll get you next time! I haven't heard you schill for BMW. You just did it to attack Lexus, which is beneath you.
 
   You're on a good team, stick with 'em! They'll turn it around, LOL!!
 
   DrFill

#15644 of 24723 Steve by drfill

May 19, 2006 (6:34 pm)

You got the love! Congrats on comin' aboard The Real Love Boat! You defintely know what's up! You really care about the Future of Lexus!
 
   Lj
 
   You're a good man! I trust you'll get on board soon enough. I believe in you, I don't care what they say about you!
 
   DrFill

#15645 of 24723 Re: Merc [drfill] by lexusguy

May 19, 2006 (9:43 pm)

Replying to: drfill (May 19, 2006 5:43 pm)
You seemed to pick on the Lexus interior, and mentioned it is "Good in a straight line".
 
Actually, that was me. Quoting myself: The V8 was very fast in a straight line, but handling was just average, and it had the all-time worst Lexus interior.
 
There's a big difference between objective and subjective results on a car. The GS might be able to match the numbers, but it "felt" sloppy compared to the 540, espeically w/ sport package. I think you'll find that most journalists would agree with that.
 
I didnt have any problems with the audio and HVAC controls, Lexus always has done those in a very simple and straightfoward manner, and the GS was no exception. The problem was the rest of the interior. The design was incredibly dull, and it did not befit a $50K luxury car. Nearly all of it was either plastic or vinyl. It is definitely the hands down winner for worst Lexus interior. The 5 series and especially the A6 were vastly superior on the inside, in both design and materials. I feel rather strange defending the Germans, but despite the GS's reliability and its 0-60 prowess, the 5 and A6 were just better cars than the last gen GS.
 
Looking at the three of them, its amazing just how brilliant that A6 interior was. The E430, GS400, and 540i interiors all look quite dated now, but the A6 looks just as sleek and modern now as it did then.
 

#15646 of 24723 Wow! by drfill

May 19, 2006 (11:11 pm)

My bad! It was you, wasn't it! I must still be very ill.
 
   I expect that from Merc, I expect better from you, LG!
 
   All I can say to your post is 3 major US mags disagree with you. They all came away quite fond of the GS, without qualifiers.
  
   I have NEVER seen a BMW interior that I would consider even decent. This picture verifies that. Mags coined the phrase "austere" when describing BMW interiors!
 
   Audi makes great interiors. BMW makes great driving machines. These are their strengths.
 
   When BMW makes a good, not great, interior, please post a picture! Something a step up from an Accord would be nice, for openers.
 
   Until then.....I'm trying to eat here!
 
   Merc is officially in the clear.
 
   DrFill

#15647 of 24723 Re: Wow! [drfill] by lexusguy

May 19, 2006 (11:55 pm)

Replying to: drfill (May 19, 2006 11:11 pm)
They may have disagreed in '98 or '99, but as I said before, once the A6 received actual horsepower, it was all over for GS as far as the mags were concerned. The '06 GS is the best one yet, but it still has the same fundamental problem that has been plauging the car since 1993. Lexus keeps over promising and under delivering with an akward car that has to find a small niche between the ES and LS.
 
In fairness to BMW, that picture was not the most flattering I could find, but it fit the size and angle requirements to fit with the others. Here is a much better one, along with a similar GS photo:
 
http://www.zett-eins.de/bilder/z540%20015.jpg
http://carad.ebayimg.com/i20/01/a/07/04/a9/77_4.JPG
 
While the previous 5 was hardly my favorite car interior, in my opinion it definitely bests the extremely flat and boring GS interior (CR called it "antiseptic"), which could easily have come from Accord town.

#15648 of 24723 The Doc needs a vacation by tagman

May 20, 2006 (8:00 am)

Replying to: drfill (May 19, 2006 11:11 pm)
You were right about C-Class sales. Ok! I missed that one. It sells much more than I thought.
 
My bad! It was you, wasn't it! I must still be very ill.
 
Doc, you are waving those Lexus pom-poms with irrational exuberance . . . even for the GS in areas it is not deserved. Also, you are mixing up the posters and posting major data errors. The good news is that you have good character and are man enough to admit it. I've got to respect that about you.
 
It's definately time for you to "get out of Dodge" and take that nice trip to Tahiti or Hawaii or somewhere you love, so that you can r-e-l-a-x and nourish your health back. You deserve it . . . even if you are a die-hard Lexican full of Lexuses!
 
TagMan

#15649 of 24723 Re: Should maserati introduce quattroporte ROYALE [tagman] by blckislandguy

May 20, 2006 (8:22 am)

Replying to: tagman (May 19, 2006 10:17 am)
Tagman, I read that in calender year '07 they will have this corrected. As one with a keen eye for value (e.g., your posts on used XJs) what do you think of a gently used '05 Maser traded in by a hedge fund manager's wife because she couldn't stand the tranny? Are we at 70K?

#15650 of 24723 Re: The Doc needs a vacation [tagman] by blckislandguy

May 20, 2006 (8:25 am)

Replying to: tagman (May 20, 2006 8:00 am)
My eyes glaze over when I read the point-counterpoint between the Doc and Merc1. Its too much like the McLaughlin Report on television with (ex-Jesuit, Father) John McClaughlin's posturing.

#15651 of 24723 hybrids by ljflx

May 20, 2006 (10:53 am)

Demand starting to really build now at these gas prices. I honestly think that anyone that buys a High HP low MPG car - luxury or otherwise - is going to get crushed in the used car market of the future. That big HP is going to cost a lot - upfront, at the pump and in lost resale value in the future.
 
http://www.cnn.com/2006/AUTOS/05/17/used_compacts/

#15652 of 24723 Re: Should maserati introduce quattroporte ROYALE [blckislandguy] by tagman

May 20, 2006 (10:57 am)

Replying to: blckislandguy (May 20, 2006 8:22 am)
I appreciate your comment, but the Q is a car I am only recently paying more and more attention to. Perhaps delinquent on my part, but the truth nonetheless.
 
Are you considering one? If my failing memory serves me correctly, Lexusguy knows quite a bit about the Q.
 
TagMan

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