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Sedans High End Luxury Cars
24645 messages, Last post on Aug 26, 2008 at 5:40 PM
You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
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Replying to: drfilll (May 16, 2006 5:20 pm) I know you didn't bring up the $50k CLK as a C320 coupe! YOU can't wait to announce it as a SC430 competitor, and superior at that. The CLK and C-Class sedan share a platform, and that's about it. Yeah I did as to say that the CLK's sales aren't counted in the C-Class like BMW counts their 3-Series coupes in with their sedan. The CLK shares its engines and platform with the C-Class sedans, just like the 3-Series coupes and sedans do, but the difference is the CLK is priced like an E-Class. Point being that the C doesn't have the variants like the 3-Series when it comes time to count the sales numbers. Yes the CLK500 soon to be CLK550 will trounce your SC430 as did the CLK430 before it. The SC430 is as lame of a duck as you claim the C-Class is. The CTS, TL, 3-series, G35, and ES all DOUBLE C-Class sedan sales! Are you sure about this? Don't have time to look up the numbers at the moment, but again the C-Class is the oldest car of the lot so like I said before it is very easy to pick on its sales at this point. Shall we talk about the free fall the LS430 is doing this year? Of course not because common sense tells us that it is going to drop like a rock with all the newer competition on the market so you harping about the C's sales smacks of desperation to the highest power. Its quite rediculous actually. More on your tall sales claims in a few! Picking on the looks of the ES smacks of desperation, Merc. You'd be doing a jig if the C-Class could sell anything like the ES, which has dominated the C-Class for, I don't know, 15 years? Once again, you fail to understand what competes with what. The C-Class is a smaller, rwd sedan that doesn't compete with the push box, pokeman mobile one on one. Yeah I said the new ES is ugly, it is as ugly as all getout. Domination you say? Likewise, that is what the E has done to the GS all these years. Talking about the C's sales this late in its life smacks of desperation because the only thing happening to the C's sales is what happens to all cars in their 6th model year! The C-Class is like that little, nasty, leftover runt piece, at the end of the string of sausage. Only the truly desperate and depraved grab that piece. Kinda how I felt about the previous IS,GS and every LS from 1995-2006. Regarding the ES vs GS, Lexus doesn't position the GS as a step up from the ES, as the interior room is about the same, and their missions are clearly different. As I've stated before, the LS is the Es' big brother, and the GS, is SUPPOSED TO BE the IS' big brother. That Lexus hasn't followed up on that promise is one of their few mistakes of late. Well is that some dodo marketing on their part. How could a car that is priced more than another from the same brand NOT be a step up? That is just plain dumb on Lexus' part. Then again this goes back to what I said about Lexus' and their wannabe sport image, they don't have one because on paper and in reality (if I go by your comments about the GS' lack of space compared to the ES) the ES makes more sense to most buyers, making the GS like totally irrelevant. The GS ain't no BMW and if it isn't roomier than the ES then what is the point of buying one. Now watch as the GS' numbers sink even further while the new ES takes off. I'm pretty sure you've never heard me applaude their dynamics, except at times like when C&D called the last GS430 a virtual equal to the 540i in dynamics in 2000 in a comparison. Or when MT said the GS was BETTER in '98. The last GS was what the current M is now. The overachiever. But they left well enough alone, and that won't cut it anymore. Another Lexusfan backs away from their middleweight darling, the GS. All that jazz about 1998 and 2000 is eons ago, get with the program doc as in at least 2005 or better! You since the GS's current design hit the road. M
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Replying to: drfilll (May 16, 2006 5:20 pm) Really doc? You've got to learn to research these claims before the Lexus-induced chest thump because you couldn't be more wrong. Jan-April - YTD 2006 C-Class-> 14017 ES330---> 15390 TL------> 24000 G35-----> 12169 CTS-----> 17913 Must be the new math because not one of those are "double" (28K or better) C-Class' sales! BTW, you can't holler about the C-Class wagon or hatchback, they haven't been in the sales picture since summer of 2005 when the 2006 models hit the ground. The only car that does what you say is the 3-Series which is brand new so it is to be expected. Source M |
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Replying to: drfilll (May 16, 2006 5:20 pm) Please, you don't need to sugar-coat it for us. 
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| grey Poupon it can be curiously refreshing. | |
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Replying to: tagman (May 16, 2006 8:40 pm) The hershey chocolate and dell example you have given are exercises in blunder and chaos.We all know Dell was mass-market right from the beginning like Toyota or Ford. Comparing Dell or Hershey or Coke with lexus is like comparing Toyota with lexus, doesnt make sense at all. Neither Dell, nor Hershey or Coke are luxury brands. They sell by the tens-of-millions every year. If Toyota wants to reposition itself where Benz is then yes, we must cite these examples. Lexus must evolve from "Value HELM" to "premium HELM" in my opinion otherwise the long term future of lexus BRAND will be in jeopardy. Lexus must continue to evolve and re-invent itself, and in order to do so it has to stop cut-rate pricing and price its products head-to-head with BMW-7 or Audi A8. OVER CONFIDENCE: NOBODY IS ASKING TO MATCH S-CLASS PRICING. IF LS 460 IS PRICED HEAD-TO-HEAD WITH 7-SERIES IT WILL STILL HAVE SIGNIFICANT PRICE ADVANTAGE COMPARED TO BENZ. How much time do you need before it sinks in? Lets not forget what happened to Neanderthal man, it did not evolve so it was eliminated from the evolutionary cycle. TRIED AND TESTED: NEANDERTHAL MAN USED TRIED AND TESTED FORMULA FOR SUCCESS, AND LOOK WHAT HAPPENED, IT STOPPED EVOLVING, AND WAS FINALLY ELIMINATED. DO YOU WANT LEXUS TO BE NEANDERTHAL MAN? With LS as the latest update from Lexus, this is the time to close the price-gap. |
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Replying to: stevekilburn (May 17, 2006 8:32 am) And it is doing so and it will get there. The difference between your opinion and others here is that you wanted it to occur yesterday, and most of us see it happening down the road. The real way to get there is in progressive steps. Lexus needs to offer more product and variability before it makes a serious price move all at once. They will do it but it will be in measured steps. They will gradually buid their arsenal of available products and raise prices deliberately and slowly. Over time it becomes firm just like the fed's rate moves which have pushed us back into a high interest rate enviroment - even with minimal inflation. It's the way business gets done. But no matter how they do it Lexus will still offer value because that is what their business mission statement is all about. |
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Replying to: merc1 (May 16, 2006 10:19 pm) The LS430's *free fall* in sales is nothing to do with its competition but more to do with its pending model change over. You should know that, Merc1... Lexus has one of the highest owner retention in the industry... Many owners are simply waiting on their hands to buy the LS460 and its other variants... When you see the new LS, why would you not wait another 5 months ??? Yeah I said the new ES is ugly, it is as ugly as all getout. The right adjective here would be IMO... A car as successful as the ES clearly has a lot of things going for it. It is the clear and undisputed leader in its sector... Its not even close... You don't have to like it, but to categorically diss it like you do smacks of hate and lack of objectivity. You simply have a one-track mentality of cars... they should drive like they are on a track otherwise condemn them to the scrap yard... Get real !
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Replying to: stevekilburn (May 17, 2006 8:32 am)
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Replying to: oac (May 17, 2006 10:09 am) This research was done by telematics experts. Read on: link title
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Replying to: stevekilburn (May 17, 2006 10:48 am) As it stands many of the price points we're expecting are nearly in line with what you want. The pices I was told was mid 60's on the SWB LS460 but it can go to the low 70's. $68-74K on the LS460L but it can go to $80K and $82-102K on the LS460HL with the most common car configuration in the high 80's. Do you want prices to be higher than this? As it is this is a pretty healthy uptick in LS prices and model variation if the data is accurate. |
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