Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#15551 of 24726 Re: Merc1 [merc1]
May 14, 2006 (4:39 pm)
Sometimes though you guys make it seem like the S (and Mercedes itself) is going to all of a sudden stop selling because of the new LS, that is nonsense.
Me thinks so... Nahhhhh !!! just pulling your legs... Lighten up, will ya !
Not discounting the business end, just saying that it isn't relevant to us talking about cars.
OK... I hear you...
You'll be unhappy to know that the GS is already down in sales just a year after introduction. That Infiniti M that you claimed wouldn't matter in the sales race due buyers not wanting a sportier car in that segment has managed to outsell your GS last month. I seem to remember a lot of hype this time last year about how the GS was going to do so much and yet its already hitting the skids. Go figure.
I have said it many times I am no GS fan, so this does not really apply to me... I test drove the new GS300 and M35 when they both came out, and if you recall my test drive write-up on the sedan comparison board, it showered lots of praise on the M35. I loved the car and so were my kids who begged me to buy the car right there... (they came along for the ride)... Yes, the M is a better car than the GS.... currently.
However, to its credit, the new GS came hobbled - 245HP GS300 (too low) and 300HP GS430 (carry-over motor) - knowing there was a GS350 and GS460 due within 18 months of the March 2005 release, may have something to do with its declining sales after only 12 months in the market. If I know I can get a 315HP GS350 in a matter of 6 months from now, why would I buy a 245HP GS300 ? And if I can get a 380HP GS460, should I pony up the $$$ for a GS430 ? Think the market does not know about the new GS twins coming real soon ? Even Lexus expects it to be so... Especially with an IS350 with 306HP (actual 325HP on old SAE standards) selling cheaper than a GS300... The mid-cycle refresh for the GS couldn't come any sooner...
#15552 of 24726 Re: Merc1 [ljflx]
May 14, 2006 (5:12 pm)
Oh please Ljflx, there was nothing to "handle" there. The many posts about how MB is cheapening the brand with their leasing practices precede you here. That must have been the hint or implication I had in mind when reading that.
Forgive me, but I didn't expect you to give helpful information about Mercedes-Benz products. If that is what you were truly doing with that info on the CLS lease that would be a first.
#15553 of 24726 Re: Merc1 [oac]
May 14, 2006 (5:24 pm)
However, to its credit, the new GS came hobbled - 245HP GS300 (too low) and 300HP GS430 (carry-over motor) - knowing there was a GS350 and GS460 due within 18 months of the March 2005 release, may have something to do with its declining sales after only 12 months in the market. If I know I can get a 315HP GS350 in a matter of 6 months from now, why would I buy a 245HP GS300 ? And if I can get a 380HP GS460, should I pony up the $$$ for a GS430 ? Think the market does not know about the new GS twins coming real soon ?
I love how you try to spin and excuse the GS for its 2nd year (same model year) falling sales. Now how many people do you think know about the GS350 and GS460 outside of the small group of people that visit internet chat/mesg forums? The average Lexus buyer doesn't know about the GS350/460 and dealers certainly aren't telling anyone about them with GS300/430s sitting on the lot. Secondly Lexus the all-knowing, with its richie-rich parent, cannot make a mistake company should have done better with the GS from the start. Goes back to what I've said all along when we have to hear about Toyota and all their money. All the money in the world doesn't mean anything if the execution is off. What sense did the weak GS300 make in the first place? I'm willing to bet that once the new engines are in place sales will spike for a few months and then start to slip again and then what? The car is years away from a total re-design. Hp along isn't going to "fix" the GS. A car that has to get a mid-cycle refresh for its 2nd model year is in trouble. I seriously doubt the 07' GS will be a facelift or "refesh" as you put it, more likely just an engine swap.
#15554 of 24726 Re: Hopefully, Lexus has learned something from the IS and M [drfilll]
May 14, 2006 (5:42 pm)
I think the point oac and lj are making is the S won't be so hot next year, so have your fun now, and pull that gross,
Yep that is their point, the difference is that I don't think any of the Germancarfans go on and on about how Mercedes' sales are going impact everyone else so much. The house of Lexus is built on sales and more sales speeches from the faithful. Then when it doesn't hold up you get the spins. Lexus had better be glad themselves this year because without the new IS250/350 twins they'd actually be looking at a decent decline overall YTD.
#15555 of 24726 Re: Merc1 [hpowders]
May 14, 2006 (5:45 pm)
I guess the business reason for this is, don't have your CEO publically make untrue and ridiculous claims about a new vehicle.
You can fool some of the people.....
No we all got what he was saying wrong! That never happened, now.
#15556 of 24726 Re: Merc1 [merc1]
May 14, 2006 (6:01 pm)
A car that has to get a mid-cycle refresh for its 2nd model year is in trouble. I seriously doubt the 07' GS will be a facelift or "refesh" as you put it, more likely just an engine swap.
Yeah... I mean an engine swap... And the GS is NOT in any trouble as you imply. This is like you accuse us about the LS v S-class... The M outselling the GS is only in recent sales, so why would you use a few months trendline to pass judgement ? Not quite a trend as you make it. Could it be you really despise the GS that much ?
BTW, the execution of the GS was biased to Lexus' strength - luxury. However, the performance side is there, just *hidden* behind all that VDIM junk... If I were Lexus, I'd put a kill switch for VDIM, stiffen the suspension a lot more, upsize the wheels to std 18" (w/19" option), and add in a 6-MT to the GS350 AWD trim... I bet that'd put the GS in a position to compete with Howard's 545i a lot better, eh ?
Will Lexus ever put an MT in a GS ? Maybe/maybe not... Guess we'll see in 6 months or so when the GS350 gets here.
#15557 of 24726 Re: Merc1 [merc1]
May 14, 2006 (6:12 pm)
I love how you try to spin and excuse the GS for its 2nd year (same model year) falling sales
You're so desparate to find fault with Lexus that if one of their models shows down yty numbers in the second year, you make it out to be a failure. Tell us, why don't you, how often is it that an MB model is growing yty when it reaches the 13th month or so after a redesign? Are you going to claim that it happens all the time?
It is perfectly normal for a new model from almost any company to achieve its best sales numbers in the first 12 months after a redesign, for year 2 to show a decline, and for the worst sales numbers to be in the 12 months before the next redesign. Infiniti is the exception, not the rule.
Are you going to call your beloved S-Class a failure if it is showing down yty numbers in months 13 and 14? That seems to be what you are saying for the GS.
#15558 of 24726 Re: Merc1 [oac]
May 14, 2006 (6:15 pm)
So OAC - in Merc's world Lexus buyers are dummies who don't know anything about the model line changes that are coming and just walk blindly into a dealership and write a check. These of course are the same people that according to him take surveys galore and read all about relability but when it comes to understanding what they are buying (for big bucks) they couldn't care less about researching model changes due. When it comes to sales in Merc's world Lexus model line replenishment cycles like we see with the IS and now the ES (which will bolster sales shortly) and the LS which will have huge demand late in the year don't count even though he's used them often for MB when it's in replenishment mode.
May 14, 2006 (6:42 pm)
Re: Cheapening their brand etc.
I just saw a new promo for used MB cars. MBUSA is offerring 2.9% loans on most models but not the S Class. This could be interpreted as the S Class doesn't need re-sale support. (Another less likely interpretation is that the S Class Program Manager blew his budget last fall on the S Class discounts to clear the way for the new model.)
#15560 of 24726 Re: Merc1 [ljflx]
May 14, 2006 (6:51 pm)
Yeah... you are so right... Not to pile on Merc1, but sometimes Merc1 sees the gnat in other people's eyes, but fail to see the big rock in his own eyes... But, we love Merc1 all the same. And we'll love him even more when he buys either the CLS or the S320 CDI due here next year..