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Sedans High End Luxury Cars
24700 messages, Last post on Dec 01, 2009 at 12:24 PM
You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
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Replying to: merc1 (May 14, 2006 12:54 am) This is just spin, Merc1. No one is that dumb, to infer MB is going away bcos of the LS. That the S sales will be impacted by the new LS series is what Len is saying, and I concur. I believe you do too. Until the new LS series gets here, the S550 has the field pretty much to itself, hence it is enjoying its advantage right now. I have said it often, the LS and S will battle for sales supremacy. The LS will outsell the S, but the S will remain the top marque for sometime to come. With time, Lexus will achieve a status close to the MB... Its already 4th in prestige, according to a recent survey, just behind MB. We'll see... But pls do NOT discount the business side of the car industry. Its why GM and Ford are in such big trouble today, while Toyota is minting $$$... To not include the business angle is perilous.. But of course, as a pure enthusast, and a narrow viewpoint, you are correct to focus solely on the car itself. That view is not general and too narrow...
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Replying to: ljflx (May 14, 2006 8:44 am) I guess you missed the hype about the new GS this time last year. Anyway the GS has NOT done well at someone's expense. The Infiniti M that some here said didn't matter is actually starting to outsell the GS on a monthly basis and the E and 5 still outsell it quite easily so at who's expense has the GS been successful at??? Very curious to know who that is. BTW - in that same auto section there's a lease ad for the $80K CLS500 at $749 per mo with $4K down, 39 months. Basically it's the equivalent of $850 a month. Looks like MB is dealing them as that looks like a cheap lease for that expensive of a car. And your point is what? It would appear to me that what you saw was a local thing and not a nationwide deal for the CLS? M
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Replying to: oac (May 14, 2006 11:06 am) Nah the spin is when the implication is that Mercedes is going to be oh so severly impacted everytime Lexus makes a move. Then we get the more logical spin on the original whenever its called into question. Naturally I agree with what you're saying now. Sometimes though you guys make it seem like the S (and Mercedes itself) is going to all of a sudden stop selling because of the new LS, that is nonsense. But pls do NOT discount the business side of the car industry. Its why GM and Ford are in such big trouble today, while Toyota is minting $$$... To not include the business angle is perilous.. But of course, as a pure enthusast, and a narrow viewpoint, you are correct to focus solely on the car itself. That view is not general and too narrow... Really? Ford and GM's problems have nothing to do with this conversation nor does all this business doubletalk. Buyers don't care one bit about any of this. Are Toyota buyers staying away because of the CEO drama Toyota is currently having? Of course not. Nor do they care about how much money Toyota made last year. Not discounting the business end, just saying that it isn't relevant to us talking about cars. You'll be unhappy to know that the GS is already down in sales just a year after introduction. That Infiniti M that you claimed wouldn't matter in the sales race due buyers not wanting a sportier car in that segment has managed to outsell your GS last month. I seem to remember a lot of hype this time last year about how the GS was going to do so much and yet its already hitting the skids. Go figure. The only way all this business mumbo-jumbo would have anything to do with this is if Mercedes had put out a half-done, lacking S-Class like the W220 was upon its introduction as far as build and quality is concerned. Clearly (so far) this isn't the case this time around. M
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Replying to: merc1 (May 14, 2006 11:46 am)
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Replying to: blkhemi (May 13, 2006 6:48 pm) Superior? I don't think so. Even though I personally lean on the side of Eurocars, I still must recognize that the Lexus fan base is incredibly brand loyal, and statistics further prove that to be true . . . in fact, maybe even more so than MB fans. TagMan
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And will give the next GS more chutzpah next time around. Trying not to offend is not gonna get it in the mid-luxury class! I think the point oac and lj are making is the S won't be so hot next year, so have your fun now, and pull that gross, cus a storm's coming! Calling the LS Hybrid a 600 is fine, but with not much more than 450HP at the end, a price over $100k might justify the 600 moniker, to show a true S600 competitor. Maybe LS550 would be more like it? DrFill
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Replying to: tagman (May 14, 2006 3:01 pm) But no matter how crappy, snotty, poorly MB assembles there cars, and I'm not saying they are, people will continue to buy them in droves. Some of the same people who're buying the W221 in it's first year are some of the ones who got pinched on the inception of the W220 with all of it's quality problems. And there are several in-house/independent studies that back up this. But it has to be said again. The new LS, while said to be a greatly improved vehicle over it's predecessor, will not shudder the S alone. And yes, the marvel LS600hL will be a welcome addition to it's line, but it will not topple a S600. And we all forget that MB has so many different variants of the S that they too help push sales. Hopefully the LS won't be so one-dimensional this go round. It's going to take more than an Ultra pkg. to take on the S.
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Replying to: merc1 (May 14, 2006 11:57 am) Me thinks so... Nahhhhh !!! just pulling your legs... Lighten up, will ya ! Not discounting the business end, just saying that it isn't relevant to us talking about cars. OK... I hear you... You'll be unhappy to know that the GS is already down in sales just a year after introduction. That Infiniti M that you claimed wouldn't matter in the sales race due buyers not wanting a sportier car in that segment has managed to outsell your GS last month. I seem to remember a lot of hype this time last year about how the GS was going to do so much and yet its already hitting the skids. Go figure. I have said it many times I am no GS fan, so this does not really apply to me... I test drove the new GS300 and M35 when they both came out, and if you recall my test drive write-up on the sedan comparison board, it showered lots of praise on the M35. I loved the car and so were my kids who begged me to buy the car right there... (they came along for the ride)... Yes, the M is a better car than the GS.... currently. However, to its credit, the new GS came hobbled - 245HP GS300 (too low) and 300HP GS430 (carry-over motor) - knowing there was a GS350 and GS460 due within 18 months of the March 2005 release, may have something to do with its declining sales after only 12 months in the market. If I know I can get a 315HP GS350 in a matter of 6 months from now, why would I buy a 245HP GS300 ? And if I can get a 380HP GS460, should I pony up the $$$ for a GS430 ? Think the market does not know about the new GS twins coming real soon ? Even Lexus expects it to be so... Especially with an IS350 with 306HP (actual 325HP on old SAE standards) selling cheaper than a GS300... The mid-cycle refresh for the GS couldn't come any sooner... |
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Replying to: ljflx (May 14, 2006 2:02 pm) Forgive me, but I didn't expect you to give helpful information about Mercedes-Benz products. If that is what you were truly doing with that info on the CLS lease that would be a first. M
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Replying to: oac (May 14, 2006 4:39 pm) I love how you try to spin and excuse the GS for its 2nd year (same model year) falling sales. Now how many people do you think know about the GS350 and GS460 outside of the small group of people that visit internet chat/mesg forums? The average Lexus buyer doesn't know about the GS350/460 and dealers certainly aren't telling anyone about them with GS300/430s sitting on the lot. Secondly Lexus the all-knowing, with its richie-rich parent, cannot make a mistake company should have done better with the GS from the start. Goes back to what I've said all along when we have to hear about Toyota and all their money. All the money in the world doesn't mean anything if the execution is off. What sense did the weak GS300 make in the first place? I'm willing to bet that once the new engines are in place sales will spike for a few months and then start to slip again and then what? The car is years away from a total re-design. Hp along isn't going to "fix" the GS. A car that has to get a mid-cycle refresh for its 2nd model year is in trouble. I seriously doubt the 07' GS will be a facelift or "refesh" as you put it, more likely just an engine swap. M
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