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Sedans High End Luxury Cars
24700 messages, Last post on Dec 01, 2009 at 12:24 PM
You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
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Replying to: blkhemi (May 13, 2006 6:48 pm) We'll now need to forget that Mercedes' sales are up a great deal this year both here and worldwide. Funny thing is others here predicted the same type of doom and demise last year about the E-Class and 5-Series because of the new GS, but the GS is already hitting the skids one year later. Go figure. I wonder what the business reason is for this? blkhemi - your comments are irrelevant, but all that business jazz (that most people couldn't care any less about) is somehow relevant. M
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Replying to: ljflx (May 13, 2006 5:10 pm) We'll see about that. The LS460 has 380hp and the S550 has 382hp so I don't know where you're getting "more power" for the LS from. I guess you're comparing the LS600h to the S550? If Lexus wants to badge their car as a "600" in their usual wannabe attempt to imply status then they need more than 430hp to get with a real "600", a S600 that is. I understand what you're saying about Lexus and their long term strategy, but homer (i.e. the average buyer) couldn't care less about that, they're looking at the car not Lexus' business model. With all the quality problems Lexus' parent Toyota have had lately with Avalons and Camrys I wouldn't get too cocky about Lexus being so untouchable. Lexus was so lucky to have the Camry to come to market first so their owners would suffer those transmission failures first allowing Lexus to make sure it didn't happen on the ES350. M
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Replying to: merc1 (May 14, 2006 12:54 am) I guess the business reason for this is, don't have your CEO publically make untrue and ridiculous claims about a new vehicle. You can fool some of the people..... However, I am eagerly anticipating driving the new LS 460 this fall. With the restyling, Lexus will have a winner here.
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Replying to: merc1 (May 14, 2006 1:10 am) I don't remember anyone saying the GS would put the E out of business. Just that it would do well in sales at someone's expense, and it has. Somehow you seem to take every reference to problems to this extreme case of going out of business. Flying Spur - In depth story in today's NY Times. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/14/automobiles/14AUTO.html?_r=1&oref=slogin BTW - in that same auto section there's a lease ad for the $80K CLS500 at $749 per mo with $4K down, 39 months. Basically it's the equivalent of $850 a month. Looks like MB is dealing them as that looks like a cheap lease for that expensive of a car.
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Replying to: merc1 (May 14, 2006 12:54 am) This is just spin, Merc1. No one is that dumb, to infer MB is going away bcos of the LS. That the S sales will be impacted by the new LS series is what Len is saying, and I concur. I believe you do too. Until the new LS series gets here, the S550 has the field pretty much to itself, hence it is enjoying its advantage right now. I have said it often, the LS and S will battle for sales supremacy. The LS will outsell the S, but the S will remain the top marque for sometime to come. With time, Lexus will achieve a status close to the MB... Its already 4th in prestige, according to a recent survey, just behind MB. We'll see... But pls do NOT discount the business side of the car industry. Its why GM and Ford are in such big trouble today, while Toyota is minting $$$... To not include the business angle is perilous.. But of course, as a pure enthusast, and a narrow viewpoint, you are correct to focus solely on the car itself. That view is not general and too narrow...
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Replying to: ljflx (May 14, 2006 8:44 am) I guess you missed the hype about the new GS this time last year. Anyway the GS has NOT done well at someone's expense. The Infiniti M that some here said didn't matter is actually starting to outsell the GS on a monthly basis and the E and 5 still outsell it quite easily so at who's expense has the GS been successful at??? Very curious to know who that is. BTW - in that same auto section there's a lease ad for the $80K CLS500 at $749 per mo with $4K down, 39 months. Basically it's the equivalent of $850 a month. Looks like MB is dealing them as that looks like a cheap lease for that expensive of a car. And your point is what? It would appear to me that what you saw was a local thing and not a nationwide deal for the CLS? M
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Replying to: oac (May 14, 2006 11:06 am) Nah the spin is when the implication is that Mercedes is going to be oh so severly impacted everytime Lexus makes a move. Then we get the more logical spin on the original whenever its called into question. Naturally I agree with what you're saying now. Sometimes though you guys make it seem like the S (and Mercedes itself) is going to all of a sudden stop selling because of the new LS, that is nonsense. But pls do NOT discount the business side of the car industry. Its why GM and Ford are in such big trouble today, while Toyota is minting $$$... To not include the business angle is perilous.. But of course, as a pure enthusast, and a narrow viewpoint, you are correct to focus solely on the car itself. That view is not general and too narrow... Really? Ford and GM's problems have nothing to do with this conversation nor does all this business doubletalk. Buyers don't care one bit about any of this. Are Toyota buyers staying away because of the CEO drama Toyota is currently having? Of course not. Nor do they care about how much money Toyota made last year. Not discounting the business end, just saying that it isn't relevant to us talking about cars. You'll be unhappy to know that the GS is already down in sales just a year after introduction. That Infiniti M that you claimed wouldn't matter in the sales race due buyers not wanting a sportier car in that segment has managed to outsell your GS last month. I seem to remember a lot of hype this time last year about how the GS was going to do so much and yet its already hitting the skids. Go figure. The only way all this business mumbo-jumbo would have anything to do with this is if Mercedes had put out a half-done, lacking S-Class like the W220 was upon its introduction as far as build and quality is concerned. Clearly (so far) this isn't the case this time around. M
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Replying to: merc1 (May 14, 2006 11:46 am)
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Replying to: blkhemi (May 13, 2006 6:48 pm) Superior? I don't think so. Even though I personally lean on the side of Eurocars, I still must recognize that the Lexus fan base is incredibly brand loyal, and statistics further prove that to be true . . . in fact, maybe even more so than MB fans. TagMan
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And will give the next GS more chutzpah next time around. Trying not to offend is not gonna get it in the mid-luxury class! I think the point oac and lj are making is the S won't be so hot next year, so have your fun now, and pull that gross, cus a storm's coming! Calling the LS Hybrid a 600 is fine, but with not much more than 450HP at the end, a price over $100k might justify the 600 moniker, to show a true S600 competitor. Maybe LS550 would be more like it? DrFill
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