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High End Luxury Cars

24723 messages,  Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum.

What is this discussion about? Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan



Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.

A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.

Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.

Messages Page 1539 of 2473

#15375 of 24723 Re: highly successful formula [designman] by garyh1

May 05, 2006 (9:08 am)

Replying to: designman (May 05, 2006 6:24 am)
I have to believe there are still plenty of people who want to get their foot in the door of a Mercedes and could care less about engine power.
 
I'm with you on this one, designman. If not, why does the 6 cyl E350 sell so well vs. the 8 cyl E500? When I bought my E320 in 1998, I was fully satisfied with its 6.9 sec 0-60 vs. 6.4 for the E430. I would imagine a lot of people are making the same valuation now, with an $8350 MSRP price differential between the starting prices of the current models (yes, some of which is due to other options included on the E500).
 
MB will bring in the S450 as soon as it has excess production capacity over the demand for the more-profitable S550. When that will be is beyond my ken. They're just not going to say when too early for fear of slowing down S550 sales.
 
Heck, before they were ready to produce the S550, they even tried to stretch their sales down-market by bringing out an S350 - what does that tell you?

#15376 of 24723 Re: highly successful formula [designman] by merc1

May 05, 2006 (9:09 am)

Replying to: designman (May 05, 2006 6:24 am)
I don’t know. I have to believe there are still plenty of people who want to get their foot in the door of a Mercedes and could care less about engine power.
 
You could be right, but I don't know either. Guess we'll have to see what they do.
 
M

#15377 of 24723 Re: highly successful formula [garyh1] by merc1

May 05, 2006 (9:07 am)

Replying to: garyh1 (May 05, 2006 9:08 am)
If not, why does the 6 cyl E350 sell so well vs. the 8 cyl E500? When I bought my E320 in 1998, I was fully satisfied with its 6.9 sec 0-60 vs. 6.4 for the E430. I would imagine a lot of people are making the same valuation now, with an $8350 MSRP price differential between the starting prices of the current models (yes, some of which is due to other options included on the E500).
 
Well thats a different class and the E350 is more competitive with other cars in that class compared to what a 335hp S450 would be compared to the 750iL, 07' LS460 and A8L. Plus the E's market segment is dominated by six cylinder engines which typcially aren't known for big hp numbers anyway. I just think they'd be better off at least making the S450 look more competitive on paper with more hp for it.
 
MB will bring in the S450 as soon as it has excess production capacity over the demand for the more-profitable S550. When that will be is beyond my ken. They're just not going to say when too early for fear of slowing down S550 sales.
 
I'll buy that. I think they may be trying to see where the LS460 will price in addition to what you've stated.
 
M

#15378 of 24723 Re: highly successful formula [merc1] by garyh1

May 05, 2006 (9:37 am)

Replying to: merc1 (May 05, 2006 9:07 am)
I just think they'd be better off at least making the S450 look more competitive on paper with more hp for it.
 
Can't disagree with that thought. Timing of ramp-up vs. demand for the S550 may give them time to improve the engine in the S450, but if not then they can always bring it in with a next-year upgrade.
 
I think they may be trying to see where the LS460 will price in addition to what you've stated.
 
Just think what you are saying. MB the leader, the innovator, the true HELM is holding back trying to see what Lexus the copycat, the pretender, the updated Buick-maker, is going to do? Wow, merc, you really have come a long way in the last year towards looking at things from a wider perspective. I salute you!

#15379 of 24723 Re: highly successful formula [garyh1] by merc1

May 05, 2006 (9:44 am)

Replying to: garyh1 (May 05, 2006 9:37 am)
Just think what you are saying. MB the leader, the innovator, the true HELM is holding back trying to see what Lexus the copycat, the pretender, the updated Buick-maker, is going to do? Wow, merc, you really have come a long way in the last year towards looking at things from a wider perspective. I salute you!
 
LOL....picture me grudingly typing this like a stubborn little kid, saying "thank you".
 
Seriously though MB isn't above having to re-think things from time to time especially with pricing in this segment. I don't think anyone MB/BMW/Audi/Jaguar etc. thought Lexus would add nearly 100hp to the LS this time around.
 
M

#15380 of 24723 Re: highly successful formula [merc1] by tagman

May 05, 2006 (9:53 am)

Replying to: merc1 (May 05, 2006 9:07 am)
Please allow me to throw a potential wrench in the gear regarding the S450.
 
I think the S450, in the format we are all expecting it to be, would not necessarily offer MB a clear advantage over the LS460 and it also would not necessarily have enough unique characteristics compared to the S550 . . . and it, therefore, could potentially cannabalize some S550 sales, as well as lose some others to the LS460.
 
I suspect that the execs at MB are aware of this. So while the rest of you were posting about the timing and merits of the S450, I started to wonder how the S450 could offer something more unique and special and innovative. I then thought about the new 350 CGI engine. Given the increasing focus on fuel efficiency and power, this might be a viable alternative and a good marketing strategy.
 
MB might be planning to use this 350 CGI engine instead of the one we have all been expecting, or perhaps there are alternative BluTech diesel plans, or even something else that we know nothing about yet.
 
Anyway, my point is that I am strongly suggesting the possibility that there might be an alternative to the powerplant and model designation that is being considered.
 
The advantage could be less cannabalization of the S550, and further distinguishing and distancing itself from the LS460.
 
Anyone else want to agree with me on this possibility, or have I gone too far out on a limb here?
 
TagMan

#15381 of 24723 Re: Relative Value [blkhemi] by ljflx

May 05, 2006 (10:01 am)

Replying to: blkhemi (May 05, 2006 9:05 am)
That's a sick strategy in this green and increasing oil cost enviroment (nearly as sick as bringing out the phaeton) and will be a bomb IMO. Sounds to me like Pietsch is still calling the shots, is as obsessed as ever with MB and is as nuts as ever on business decisions. Lexus bringing out a powerhouse car above the LS and competing in a different segment is the smart way to go. If you are going to brag about low volume high HP cars then move to another car level rather than put an existing HELM on steroids. This is reminding me of a pennant race where a few teams are playing each other in games at the end of the season and killing each other off while other teams feast on losing record teams. Audi, if that strategy is correct, may win a battle but you can bet your life they will lose the bigger war.

#15382 of 24723 Re: highly successful formula [tagman] by ljflx

May 05, 2006 (10:08 am)

Replying to: tagman (May 05, 2006 9:53 am)
You could be dead right here. It does seem - on paper - that they made the S550 a little too perfect leaving no room for anything underneath it. But an alternative diesel powerplant would circumvent that. They have to have something under the S550 because I'd think that their sales would drop to low volumes after about 18 months if they don't. Lastly I must have read three different stories saying that the American market is the penultimate market for the S class, so to be one dimensional at the affordable level cannot be MB's plan.

#15383 of 24723 Re: highly successful formula [ljflx] by tagman

May 05, 2006 (10:20 am)

Replying to: ljflx (May 05, 2006 10:08 am)
You could be dead right here. It does seem - on paper - that they made the S550 a little too perfect leaving no room for anything underneath it. But an alternative diesel powerplant would circumvent that.
 
Man, if we are right about this . . . it's going to feel real good when we see it. What do you think about the other possibility of MB using the upcoming 350 CGI (Stratified-Charged Gasoline Injection) engine? Just as legitimate, don't you think?
 
TagMan

#15384 of 24723 Re: highly successful formula [tagman] by ljflx

May 05, 2006 (10:23 am)

Replying to: tagman (May 05, 2006 10:20 am)
Or a hybrid of some type.

Messages Page 1539 of 2473

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