Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#15350 of 24726 head-to-head with A8 and 7, tremendous value over S550
May 04, 2006 (7:54 pm)
Your comment "Your argument is still a campaign to get the most money possible, as YOU see it. That is no longer value"
would have been correct if I had said
"LS 460 should be priced 82K and 460L should be 86K to match S550"
But thats not what I said. I said "LS 460 should be head-to-head with A8 and 7" so actually there is still "TREMENDOUS" value, more than $10,000 compared to Benz. Thats more than 13% discount!!!!!
And lets not forget A8 was introduced in 1994 so its brand heritage is even more sketchy than LS.
we both are on zero degree and perfectly aligned, and regarding 36 hours, LOL!
#15351 of 24726 LS 600hL and who will it compete with
May 04, 2006 (8:05 pm)
I think LS 600hL will compete with A8L W12 and 760Li, not S550.
V8 hybrid with 430 hp to compete with 438hp 760Li and 450 hp W12, not 380 hp S550.
But it will be priced in the S550 ballpark. So it will be "LOADED WITH VALUE".
#15354 of 24726 "Value HELM" versus "Premium HELM"
May 04, 2006 (8:46 pm)
"Value HELM" can appeal to buyers who are socialist in nature.
Those who love capitalism and its benefits should push for more profit increases. Lexus should gun more for capitalists who love "commanding premium" along with its current customer base.
However, capitalism can also give sour results if those profits are not wisely invested.
By raising its prices in line with A8 and 7 Lexus can use that extra cash just as any enlightened capitalist would.
Did I ruffle a few feathers?
#15355 of 24726 Re: "Value HELM" versus "Premium HELM" [stevekilburn]
May 04, 2006 (8:50 pm)
With all due respect, just consider all the counterpoints that have been posted in reply to your campaign. Are you posting just to post, or also to read and absorb different viewpoints? Think about it.
#15356 of 24726 Re: "Value HELM" versus "Premium HELM" [tagman]
May 04, 2006 (9:30 pm)
I am reading, absorbing and admiring all the counter-points and in time my view will evolve, you may be right, posting too much can dilute the message, but at the same time I feel compelled to campaign for both Lexus and Porsche.
I just found a list of HELM suppliers, for example for porsche, and I will post it in relevant forums. I am also thinking about turning the corner and talking a little about HELM suppliers themselves and their future prospects. Check out this link
It lists many german, french and american HELM suppliers. Except Delphi, most of them are healthy. Even more interesting is the fact that germans never use any japanese suppliers, very rarely.
Domestics also dont use many japanese suppliers, but japanese use many german and domestic suppliers.
When you find supplier list for LS 460 and S550 you can post it here.
#15358 of 24726 Re: Relative Value [blkhemi]
May 04, 2006 (11:38 pm)
But from what I hear from Ingolstadt, the '09 replacement for the current A8 will correct all of the wrong-doings here in the States. It's said to come to market with a 4.2 FSI V-8 with about 470-hp/8-speed tranny as the "base" engine and a "clean" V-10 TDI within the first year it comes to the States.
Yikes! If that is the case the class will be once again sent back to the drawing board. It sounds nice, but a base A8 with 470hp sounds like a little bit much to me.
I did read that for 07' all V8 A8 and A6 models get the 350hp version of the 4.2L FSI V8 - a typical German car company move as far as engines go.
So it all remains to be seen. I'm not giving up on my favorite German brand!!
No please don't because I'm not! Audi is only second to MB in my eye when it comes to luxury cars, BMW used to be #2 but they just aren't pretty enough across the range for me to feel the same way anymore. That is however just when looking at them however because they still remain arguably the best drive of the 3.
#15359 of 24726 Re: highly successful formula [ljflx]
May 04, 2006 (11:43 pm)
I agree with you and others are Steve's argument, but there is no S450 yet and it doesn't appear that there will be one for at least another year so the S550 is where its at. If I were MB I wouldn't even bother with a S450 at this point until direct-injection is implememted giving the S450 a better hp rating because 335hp isn't going to come even close to the projected 380hp LS460. I think MB realized this because now it is like the S450 never existed and luckily for them the S550 is doing better than originaly projected. I don't see a S450 before the 2008/09 model year. The June issue of R&T says we aren't getting the S450 at all.