Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#15200 of 24723 Re: Performance vs. Luxury [tagman]
Apr 26, 2006 (10:34 pm)
Nothing really on the next-generation CLK just yet. All the info I've post in futures MB models thread is partly gleamed from dedicated MB sites and just knowing how MB operates. Once a new engine appears it will soon be placed into everything in some form or another. Facelifts come anywhere between 3-4 years redesigns for most models in 7...really not that hard to predict what MB will do. SLK appears for the 2005 model year with the new 3.5L V6 then came the ML350, E350, CLK350, C350, R350 in that order. MB has just shown a direct-injection version of the 3.5L V6 that makes 292hp for the European CLS350. I'd say we'll get that engine first in the 2008 C350 and then the normal pattern will follow. I thought I read something about regular gasoline being cleaned up too as in getting rid of sulfur?
Anyway, the same is happening now with the new 5.5L V8, first the S550, now the SL550, then the E550, CLS550 on so on....see how it goes? BMW is pretty much the same way....first 750i, then 650i and then 550i. Now Audi doesn't always adhere to this pattern.
The only thing no one has been able to figure out is why the 2007 ML500 hasn't become the ML450 or ML550 according to a 2007 order sheet that was posted on MBWorld.org.
Next up look for the turbocharged version of the new 6.2L V8 in the SL63, S63 and CL63. Hp numbers you ask? About 570hp and over 600lb-ft of torque. I'm always right about this...lol! Now the CLK getting 475hp did shock me a little, I had it pegged at 440-460hp, not 475hp! You know what this means right? Come facelift time the SLK55 is history, enter the SLK63. Ditto for the next generation C-Class AMG model.
Well the diesels are official on for 2007 in 45 states for the R320 CDI and ML320 CDI. The only thing not clear yet is whether or not the E320 CDI Bluetec will be certified for all 50 states. I suspect that there is something going on with this process everyday. I think the tanglement centers around how to keep track of whether or not owners are keeping that urea canister filled/changed at the recommended intervals. I think the car itself is ready for sale in all states, but MB and government are likely wrangling over the maintenance schedule and keeping track of it. God forbid a customer drive a diesel for a few days/weeks in between services in Cali that isn't compliant!
I bet GM/DCX/BMW are working overtime to get a hybrid out while the craze is still on, but I doubt you'll see one from any of them before the 2008 model year.
#15201 of 24723 Re: Performance vs. Luxury [merc1]
Apr 26, 2006 (11:01 pm)
I bet GM/DCX/BMW are working overtime to get a hybrid out while the craze is still on, but I doubt you'll see one from any of them before the 2008 model year
Soon, the craze will explode. It's like the alignment of the planets thing . . . the gas prices go up and suddenly Washington pretends to be concerned. Prices ease up a tiny bit for political reasons and to get the monkey off big oil's back. Then, comes the summer gas price increase! All about this time, the hybrid vehicles start to roll into showrooms in even greater numbers. Soon people are ticked off even more about gasoline prices and sure enough, the new model year starts out with even MORE hybrids, and soon thereafter the flagship hybrid LS is released with even more hybrid attention in the news. More advertising dollars. Gasoline goes up and down a bit, but remains relatively high, of course, and another round of hybrid awareness digs its heals into our society. Then there are even MORE hybrid vehicles, and the question is . . . where the ---- is Mercedes Benz during all this? . . . Pushing their shiny new GIANT GL SUV with a nice big juicy V8 under the hood.
Amongst other cool things, of course. Actually, the diesels should do well, IMO.
Truth is, merc, I do love the MB's, but gosh they make it difficult sometimes. They really did suffer with reliability for a while there and I pray that they get it back. And they sometimes just don't seem to be in touch at all with what the market is REALLY about. They could truly kick butt. I mean across the board, not just here and there with a hit.
Heck, I'm tired . . . done for the day.
#15202 of 24723 Re: Performance vs. Luxury [tagman]
Apr 26, 2006 (11:16 pm)
Well MB (and all the others except Lexus) were late to hybrid party so it will take a few years from them to change direction so in the meantime they'll push diesels while pondering if Hybrids are really worth it in the U.S. market when the rest of the world seemingly prefers diesels. That is an awful lot of investment on the part of DCX/BMW/GM for what will really be primarily the U.S. market. I still don't think they've committed to it like Toyota is, nobody is except maybe Honda. It looks like Honda may be cutting back production of their Accord Hybrid so they might not be as committed as Toyota in the future.
I think gas prices will have to stay at the current level for a year or better before the luxury SUV party is over and even then it will still be a smaller party going on in the back for those who really don't care about gas prices and have the money to deal with it. Then large SUVs will be more a second vehicle than a daily driver, such a change has likely already happened for those large SUV owners who have a car to drive during times like these.
I've been told that some people actually need large SUVs. Can't stand SUVs in general myself.
Yeah Mercedes has had a rough 4-5 years but I think the worst is over for the most part. The only fly in the buttermilk is the lackluster R-Class, everything else introduced in the last few years has been a hit. The reliability problem will take longer to change in both perception and reality. For what it is worth the S-Class owners on MBWorld haven't experience any problems so far which is a good sign. Last time around with the W220 the problems were immediate and considering the new S has been on sale in Europe since Sept and nothing has cropped up there either this is a small glimmer of progress I think.
#15203 of 24723 Re: Performance vs. Luxury [merc1]
Apr 27, 2006 (4:49 am)
I think the very earliest we'll see hybrid from the Germans is 2010 and that could be wishful thinking. There's too much in the way of engineering, contracting, manufacturing, patents, etc. plus these partnerships could present a lot of momentum that has to be overcome.
There is no craze yet and even if there was, can or will Toyota meet demand?
#15204 of 24723 Re: Performance vs. Luxury [designman]
Apr 27, 2006 (5:29 am)
I hope the Germans stay away from hybrids and start shipping us diesels, diesels, diesels. Something they know a thing or three about.
I still rank my 1978 240 D among the best cars I ever had. Rock solid. Could cruise all day at 75 and never break a sweat. Steering wheel was about 2 feet in diameter. I had to give it up when I got a company car. One of the worst cars I ever had the pleasure to drive. A 1980 Olds Cutlass. Shocks went before 20,000 miles. Tires too. I still remember the vibration in the steering wheel right at driving speed. The vibration was there from the first day and never went away.
I have to scratch my head when I see the R class. They already had the Pacifica, which looks better and costs less.
#15205 of 24723 Re: what about [dhamilton]
Apr 27, 2006 (6:57 am)
The B&O system that is in my W-12 will absolutely cause at the very least temporary hearing lost.
Audi has this informative video that you get if you choose this option. They had a A8 at a lab in Ingolstadt to perform a test on the system: It registered off of the meter chart. $6800k??? Way worth it for a super-high quality system. Heck I spent $23k for the system in my home, so yes, sound is of incredible importance to me.
#15206 of 24723 Re: Performance vs. Luxury [merc1]
Apr 27, 2006 (7:17 am)
For what's worth, I think that MB knows that this time around, these car's need to put up or shut up. With the new LS on the horizon, the S in the U.S. has to be a much more reliable car than the W220 it replaces. Not only that, but quality has to be taken up a whole notch.
We all know that the LS will be even more flawless in terms of materials and reliablity. But this time around, the company has gotten serious about what MB has absolutely killed them on: PERFORMANCE. With the base 460 coming out of the barn making 380hp, they'll finally give them a run for the crown.
The new W221 intitial quality has reported to be light-years ahead of the old W220, both here and abroad, which is a good sign that all of the money that DCX poured into the factories are paying off. I want to believe that they've worked out all of the quality bugs, but it's to early to call it home run. Let's wait on '08 for a final analysis.
#15207 of 24723 Re: Performance vs. Luxury [houdini1]
Apr 27, 2006 (8:41 am)
One of the worst cars I ever had the pleasure to drive
Is that the one with the double chevron tail lamps? We had one and it was the worst car ever. I mean ever!
I had a cool turntable by B&O with linear tracking but never speakers. I have expierienced the system though. Did I not see a McIntosh car reciever once? Maybe the answer is 2 "Voice of the Theater" speakers in the trunk. I think that car and home audio can't be compared. The statement about "levels" of car audio, squashes the across the board "Bose, HK, ML,B&O are great" thought. There is something about being able to pull off the grill and get all the production info. Even the infinity speakers in the T&C van won't match the infinity speakers I put in a 190E. Who really knows what is in there. Face plates and grill badges are cheap
They already had the Pacifica, which looks better and costs less.
I always have an issue with this type statement. MBUSA buys cars from DC. MBUSA doesn't sell a Pacifica. If MBUSA wants a minivan to fill the void DC will produce it. The SPRINTER does get a little fuzzy. FedEx bought some from Germany badged as a MB to test. Then Freightliner badged them, and MB sometimes serviced those. Now Dodge carries them badged as Dodge. MB does not service those. BTW they have an awesome camper on a Sprinter chassis.
Back to the HELM subject. I am visiting a friend that drives an Audi with the V12. He keeps a few cars at a small private airport. Can't wait. He said we can cut loose there. First up, 356 Carrera. WooHoo!
#15208 of 24723 CLK6.3 correction
Apr 27, 2006 (9:14 am)
I am sorry for the misinformation. Brain fart. As Shultz says "I know nothing!".
The AMG's will do away with the superchargers. A "6.3" will be out. On the hard top issue: In Europe there is an aftermarket lift off top. The question as to the US seeing a Volvo (nice) 3 piece folding top? We do not know. I have always heard price point was the issue on the release.
Again, sorry for any confusion.
#15209 of 24723 Re: Performance vs. Luxury [benzster]
Apr 27, 2006 (9:16 am)
Subaru had partnered with McIntosh for the previous gen outback. The headunit actually looked like a McIntosh pre-amp (only about 1\4 actual size), it was cool! I dont think they still are, as the new Legacy\Outback stereos make no mention of it anywhere, and if you're packing McIntosh amplification and speakers, thats the kind of name you want to drop, big time.