Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#15013 of 24726 Re: The New Mercedes? [syswei]
Apr 22, 2006 (2:53 pm)
I won't automatically hand a win to the S550 when it goes against the LS460L. How do you know the S would be dynamically better than the LS ? No one has tested the new LS yet, so we don't know. And the past is certainly no judge of the future for this new LS. Do you recall the Dec 2004 C&D (or is it MT ? I forget) comparo which the LS430 won against its peers ? In that comparo, the S430 came in almost dead last. So I'd wait to see what the S550 v LS460L v 750iL yields. That should be a fun comparo...
#15014 of 24726 Re: Lexus Engine Evolution [stevekilburn]
Apr 22, 2006 (3:17 pm)
My guess is that the fastest Lexus sedan will probably be an IS460 or IS500, with 380-400hp. I also dont think that they have any real desire to try and compete with Mercedes on the 63\65AMG level.
Infiniti could be another matter though. The M is much more "Germanic" than the GS, and could very conceivably have over 400hp in a few more years. I dont see Lexus using their V-10 in any of their sedans, but the GT-Rs upcoming 450+hp, 3.8L twin turbo engine could show up in an Infiniti product.
#15015 of 24726 Re: Lexus Engine Evolution [stevekilburn]
Apr 22, 2006 (4:27 pm)
"BMW's and Benzes are not very healthy cars. They are like sick children on steroids."
Is there a point to posting this?
Thanks for the laugh!
#15016 of 24726 Re: Lexus Engine Evolution [hpowders]
Apr 22, 2006 (6:53 pm)
Sometimes I like to hit a nerve with merc1 on this. All in good humor, everyone knows what I am poking fun at
#15017 of 24726 Re: Lexus Engine Evolution [stevekilburn]
Apr 22, 2006 (7:32 pm)
But most americans love V8, no matter how much power Infiniti, porsche and honda keep squeezing from 6-cyl, there is something about 8-cyl which you cannot have from 6-cyl.
Its pure passion. 10-cyl and 12-cyl is even better.
IMO, I think there is a word for it:
What is horsepower without it's dear friend torque? Oh yes . . . Horsepower + Torque = [fill in the blank], and everyone say amen.
#15018 of 24726 Re: The New Mercedes? [syswei]
Apr 23, 2006 (11:47 am)
I still think that one reason MB might be holding off on an S450 might be to force the auto rags to use the S550 in comparos...so that MB has a better chance of winning.
Yeah I've thought about that one too. I really don't blame them if they are because all this talk about the LS beating the S-Class has been incorrectly hyped for years when the LS has only beaten one member of the "S-Class", the S430. It has never (that I've seen) beaten the S500, but I have seen the S500 beat the LS430 in MT when the LS430 and S500 were fairly new.
Everything I've read at other MB sites suggests that with around 25K sold so far (worldwide) this year that production is at full capacity so an entry-level S isn't needed right now. The S450 was to be a U.S. only model and it isn't needed now obviously. I suspect we'll see a S450 after MB goes direct-injection on all their petrol engines which will be in 2008 so it we be more competitive hp wise.
#15019 of 24726 Re: The New Mercedes? [oac]
Apr 23, 2006 (11:56 am)
Things will be very different this time for sure. The S550 won't be the oldest car in the class like the S430 was and it will be a current model year version unlike that 2003 S430 they used.
#15020 of 24726 Re: The New Mercedes? [merc1]
Apr 23, 2006 (1:07 pm)
Any bets on when the Lexcuses will start?
#15021 of 24726 Re: The New Mercedes? [designman]
Apr 23, 2006 (1:29 pm)
My guess is that victory between the S550 and LS460 will depend on how much the reviewers value the price difference between the two cars. If price is no object, the win will probably go to Mercedes. If it is, Lexus may have a shot. Who wins what in which automag ultimately isn't that terribly important to me. The Lexus wins in my own garage.
#15022 of 24726 Re: The New Mercedes? [lexusguy]
Apr 23, 2006 (1:46 pm)
Well said. Is there any chance you won't like what you see when you get to road test the LS or are you confident it will do the trick when it arrives? Poor little 750, A8 and XJ won't be good fuh nuttin' in the comparos? I can see the LS faring better in MT and struggling in R&T. The latter take the "Track" part of their name quite seriously. You have to catch the reviewers who like lux to begin with. I guess this isn't an easy class to review objectively.