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High End Luxury Cars

24723 messages,  Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum.

What is this discussion about? Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan



Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.

A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.

Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.

Messages Page 1490 of 2473

#14889 of 24723 Re: LS600h and European Passions [merc1] by stevekilburn

Apr 16, 2006 (10:54 pm)

Replying to: merc1 (Apr 16, 2006 10:00 pm)
Well said Merc1. This is a very good answer. Most people are so mesmerized by Toyota's success in US, that they think Toyota is "Mistake Free" and can never or has never made an error.
 
It is true that Toyota along with BMW has made profits every single year in past 50 years (except BMW in 1999/2000) but that does not mean Toyota has not made mistakes. Although they have a intuition to correct those mistakes in long-run.
 
Toyota has made mistakes in Europe as far diesels go. Like Audi took 10 years to introduce SUVs in the US but now is hurriedly trying to correct it, Lexus too made a huge blunder and did not see it coming that diesels in Europe are going to be dominant. FOR 15 YEARS.
 
But Lexus might try to correct that in Future.
 
Also, Lexus should better do something about the cut-rate image by raising prices in line with the germans or they will not succeed in Europe.

#14890 of 24723 Re: 1862… I mean 1989… I mean… 1984 all over again? [blkhemi] by stevekilburn

Apr 16, 2006 (10:56 pm)

Replying to: blkhemi (Apr 16, 2006 7:43 pm)
Lexus LEDs are mobile and world first. The LEDs on Audi are fixed.

#14891 of 24723 Re: diesels? [ctsang] by stevekilburn

Apr 16, 2006 (10:58 pm)

Replying to: ctsang (Apr 16, 2006 12:59 pm)
70% of all high end luxury sedans in Europe are diesel powered in Europe and 35% in Asia. May be you need to come out of that monastery in Burma and smell some diesel.

#14892 of 24723 Re: Diesel vs Hybred: NO, its diesel-hybrid soon. by stevekilburn

Apr 16, 2006 (11:05 pm)

Replying to: anthonyp (Apr 15, 2006 8:04 pm)
Diesel-hybrid is an engineering problem and it will be solved in the near-future. 4-5 years. Diesel-hybrids will become a healthy part of the market just like Gas-hybrids.
 
I believe by 2020 hybrids with advanced Li-ion batteries will outsell conventional gas and diesel engines if they can pass the post-accident safety tests. Both for passengers and rescue workers.

#14893 of 24723 Re: I may be 100% wrong, and missing the boat on this, [drfill] by stevekilburn

Apr 16, 2006 (11:13 pm)

Replying to: drfill (Apr 15, 2006 6:16 pm)
I hope you are not having stomach flu. I think most of your points are not healthy.
 
It is in Toyota's best interests to have similar kind of market share in Europe as they have it in US.
 
Without diesels that is impossible. Therefore, the urgent necessity for diesels, especially in Europe and more so for Lexus.
 
You may be right, germans are very successful in Europe. But Long term success only happens when they start and persevere. So instead of throwing billions of dollars in Formula1 technology they should focus on diesels.
 
Instead by investing 20-30 million dollars in sports car racing in NASCAR, Le Mans and American Le Mans and some european local races, they will get the same effect in terms of sporting credentials, visibility and competitiveness.
 
Look at Audi, they are so successful in Europe, they participate in Le Mans and Sebring and they dont waste loads of cash like Mercedes in Formula1.

#14894 of 24723 Re: I may be 100% wrong, and missing the boat on this, [stevekilburn] by merc1

Apr 16, 2006 (11:34 pm)

Replying to: stevekilburn (Apr 16, 2006 11:13 pm)
Decent points....but this:
 
You may be right, germans are very successful in Europe. But Long term success only happens when they start and persevere. So instead of throwing billions of dollars in Formula1 technology they should focus on diesels.
 
I can't agree with. A F1 win matters big time in Europe and embellishes the brand big time. Europe buyers care about racing a great deal and in stark contrast to the American racing scene a lot of European cars/engines are somewhat related to the racing programs. Americans for the most part couldn't care less about racing and I can see why consider that all except for a few of the racing cars (except Vette, Viper etc.) don't have anything to do with their racing counterparts.
 
M

#14895 of 24723 F1 attendence in Europe by stevekilburn

Apr 16, 2006 (11:43 pm)

Replying to: merc1 (Apr 16, 2006 11:34 pm)
Sorry to break this to you but F1 management is seriously considering and have indeed considered cancelling several races in europe because of very low attendance. I know many Europeans and I have lived in Europe. They are moving more towards sports car racing. You can see it in the rising popularity of le Mans, 24-Nurburgring, 24-Spa belgium and many others.
 
F1 popularity is consistently and permanently waning, though not sharply, but gradually. Its rising in Asia because Asians ape Europeans in certain areas because of colonial slave mind-set. I think F1 will loose lustre when Ecclestone dies in next 10-15 years and will eventually become a vintage outfit.
 
On the other hand racing will move more towards sports car racing like American Le Mans.

#14896 of 24723 Re: F1 attendence in Europe [stevekilburn] by merc1

Apr 16, 2006 (11:49 pm)

Replying to: stevekilburn (Apr 16, 2006 11:43 pm)
Old news actually Steve. F1 isn't going to die anytime soom and those are only certain countries that have been talked about as far as pulling out, but the series remains a huge draw to the images of the manufacturers that compete. Yeah after Ecclestone is gone they might be in trouble according to some, but some of the things he has done in the past I thought were really dumb haven't really hurt F1 so I'm not sure.
 
M

#14897 of 24723 LS hybrid image by tagman

Apr 17, 2006 (9:39 am)

So, yesterday evening, the family is at an Easter get-together, and I am chatting with a friend who I haven't seen in a while, and I, of course, start talking about cars, which is natural for me . . . and certainly most all of you, as well. Just for information, he drives an '03 S-Class AMG and loves the car and the power.
 
Along with other vehicles, I mentioned the upcoming LS600hL. He knew nothing about it. I was a little surprised, but the more I thought about it I realized that it is probably typical at this point, except for those of us that are much more interested. I started to tell him about it, and the moment I used the word "hybrid", he chimed in, "I don't need a hybrid . . . I like a car with lots of power, and you know I don't really give a da-- about gas mileage."
 
I explained to him that hybrid technology isn't just about gas mileage, and that adding the electric motors to the V-8 will deliver V-12 performance closing in on around 500 HP, yet still getting reasonable mileage at the same time.
 
"Really?", was his reply. His tone and facial expression indicated he just didn't get it . . . he was stuck in his preconception.
 
So, we talked a little more about cars, but I realized we would be better to talk baseball, which we both enjoy. He likes nice cars, but knows little about them in the true sense.
 
So . . . is this typical? How many people out there will NOT understand the added power that hybrid technology offers? Will the public be stuck in the perception that hybrid vehicles are WEAKER than ICE alternatives? Will the real truth about hybrids become known to the public in adequate numbers to sustain sufficient market growth when it becomes needed??
 
There will be a LARGE learning curve ahead for the general public, and I wonder if Toyota/Lexus, Honda, and others will be able to spend enough marketing money, and have enough dealer showroom education available to truly get the truth out. Maybe hybrids really will be polarized in their acceptance, and never become acceptable in the middle ground . . . only to be delegated to Prius/Civic cars, or special limited techno-marvel vehicles such as the LS600hL.
 
Is my friend typical in his perception and reaction to the word "hybrid"? Whad'ya think?
 
TagMan

#14898 of 24723 Re: LS hybrid image [tagman] by psychdoc

Apr 17, 2006 (10:56 am)

Replying to: tagman (Apr 17, 2006 9:39 am)
Most folks can't tell you the difference between drum and disc brakes, front vs. rear wheel drive or 40 profile tires vs. 70 profile tires.
 
I'd venture a guess that if you gave a multiple choise tes to people re: Does the electric motor in a hybrid mostly help:
A-City mileage
B-Highway mileage
C-Both about equally
D-What the heck are you Northern city slickers talking about anyway
 
You wouldn't get more than a 25% correct.
 
Sad, really sad.
 
Most people never even read the instruction booklet that comes with a car.

Messages Page 1490 of 2473

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