Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#1489 of 24723 bernard1
Mar 27, 2002 (7:18 pm)
I'd have to disagree about the Acura NSX, the car is rare because it's 10+ years old and just doesn't sell. Acura has stated many times that they would love to import more of these. The NSX sold very well between 1991-1993, but after that it's been downhill. I'ts not a rare car by choice.
Well I guess we'll never know about the profit margins on the 5-Series BMW models, but It really doesn't matter what the buyer gets the car for, the only money BMW sees is the money the dealer pays to get the car. I still think the M5's engine eats up more profit on the M5 than the 525i's does. But you/me/we don't have any proof anyway, but it would interesting to find out.
On the Porsche Carrera GT. Cars are shown to the public to gauge reaction all the time and companys often base their production plans on who many orders or inquirys they get on a car, so I don't know what you mean there. Ford just did the same thing with the GT40.
I'm impressed with BMW and Mercedes' push for technology. The only thing really "wrong" with the new 7-Series is the styling. BMW really is rethinking engine and suspension design, I like that. Mercedes has been all about brakes and suspensions lately, I waiting to see their next generation of direct injection, 4-valve gas engines, due in 2004, I think. I think idrive may be a little ahead of it's time, hopefully they won't make it standard on the next 5-Series. Mercedes is turning over development of the next Comand system to Nokia. Should be interesting, though I've never had a Nokia phone (Sanyo) to know how they think. BMW hit MB with pricing like Lexus did, just one year though....the 525i was priced at $34,900, that same as the 190E 2.6.
Mar 27, 2002 (8:12 pm)
Don't get me wrong, I like the 745i, but I think that time will be a b!tch for it. The gadgets will date this car and I believe hurt its reliablity. I can almost guarantee that there are going to be expensive electrical problems to deal with in the future. Also, resale value will really suffer because of the added complexity.
S8 is pretty sweet!
Mar 28, 2002 (6:27 am)
You may be right about the gadgets. BMW's gadgets have not been the most reliable. Even their auto tilt steering wheels have had numerous problems.
Merc1 - I'm not too impressed with the 7's styling either but as most thing do, I believe it grows on us. The new 5's will have the basic same style as the 7, don't know about the Idrive but I think BMW is pushing for a standard. Remember with the E-class fist came out with oval headlights? For MB that was a major departure and created a stir. After awhile most people loved it and the E is the most successful selling car in it's class ever. Admittedly I'm still waiting for the latest S class to grow on me to replace my previous generation, but it hasn't yet. Which is why I've move to BMW and now thinking of giving Audi a shot.
Mar 28, 2002 (8:22 am)
It funny, but when the 745 wears the standard 18inch (huge in its own right) wheels the car looks bloated and weird proportioned. But when the car has the optional 19inch wheels, the car looks beautifully aggressive. But then again there are not many cars that wouldn't look good in 19inch wheels.
On that note, there is a silver Audi TT 225quattro (I can tell by the dual tailpipes) with 19 or 20 inch BBS wheels driving around campus, and it was probably the most beautiful car I have ever seen
Mar 28, 2002 (7:41 pm)
Speaking of which, I saw one today in silver with the 19" wheels, it's a stunning car, caused a few people at the stoplight to do a double take. I think the car will be fine. Chris Bangle may have been on to something here. Bobby, yes the cars many electrical systems would make me think twice about buying a used one down the road, but then again it may not be any worse than the current 7-Series, it too had electrical problems.
Mar 28, 2002 (7:55 pm)
I think the cars more centralized computer system will actually improve electrical reliability.
Mar 28, 2002 (8:57 pm)
Isn't the new 7 the first car with 42V(I'm guessing) electrical system? I would think that changing to a new standard(eventually all cars will convert) will eventually take its toll on the reliability of the components, since all systems needed to be redesigned to fit the new standard.
Is this truth or did the elf tell me this in a dream last night?
Mar 28, 2002 (10:50 pm)
the new S500 is the car that is debuting 48V technology...If I remember correctly.
Apr 11, 2002 (5:01 am)
Had my first real chance to look at the 7 in person last weekend (2 actually, a silver and a black). I still haven't driven, or even been inside, the car, so true evaluation wil have to wait.
My impressions on styling alone? I am wildly ambivalent about this car. The interior is orders of magnitude better looking than the prior 7, which (unlike the elegant exterior) had become hopelessly dated. I really like the apparent (deceptive?) simplicity of the design. The cost paid for that (idrive) may well be too high, but the look is an enormous improvement. Much nicer, IMHO, than the S or the A8, and on par with the Lexus, although in an entirely different, more extroverted style.
Outside, the side aspect is graceful and satisfying, if a bit derivative of the 6, the passat, and a handful of other german sedans. Nothing new or breathtaking, but certainly no turn off. (I still don't know what they were thinking with the crease running through the doors, though) The front of the car -- even with the busy grill/light clusters -- does not bother me in person the way it did in print. I could certainly learn to live with it (as I have the questionable design of the LS430 headlights).
The rear, as many here have said, is an entirely different matter. Dark colors, light colors, in person or in a mag, it is just plain ugly. There are so many ideas and design elements competing for attention that it becomes a jumbled mess. I have said before, and this in-person inspection confirmed, that it looks as if the rear quarters and trunk were assembled from spare parts from 6 different model years of the same car; all the pieces fit mechanically but don't look as if they came from the same car. I don't think I would ever get used to that, and would not buy the car for that reason alone (although I suspect that I would not like idrive, and that would probably keep me from buying anyway).
My guess is that they are aggressively working as we speak on a facelift for the rear, to bow next year or the year after. I also guess that they will try to find a way to make idrive an option before too long. I hope I am right on both (and I hope the car proves reliable), since I would like to be able to consider the car when I am ready to trade out of the LS430.
Apr 11, 2002 (11:32 am)
I have driven the car and find the major problem not the iDrive or the appearance but rather the shifter. I enjoy using the shifter and the new steering column mounted device on the 745i is terrible. Since steptronic isn't offer in the US (in order to avoid gas guzzler tax) it precludes shifting up and down as indicated. This seems strange in the "ultimate DRIVING machine". Supposedly it will be available in the sport model when it is available. I hope so because otherwise it is a very impressive drive.