High End Luxury Cars

24699 messages, Last post on Nov 30, 2009 at 6:41 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens

What is this discussion about? Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan

Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.

A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.

Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.

Outline

Messages Page 1479 of 2471: 1; ...; 1476; 1477; 1478; 1479; 1480; 1481; 1482; ...; 2471; Prev; Next; Last

#14772 of 24699 Re: Initial impression [tagman] by merc1 Apr 12, 2006 (10:12 pm)
Replying to: tagman (Apr 12, 2006 9:40 pm) Yeah I forgot about the Civic hybrid, I was thinking about that awful looking Insight thingy. The Civic is brand new and really hot so I expect the hybrid to be in demand also. Forgot about the Civic, thank you for the reminder. The Accord is just overpriced like Lexusguy stated earlier. For 33K I'd rather have a Passat V6 and burn a little more gas while having a lot more fun. Oh I know the LS600h will do well, likely selling out for the first few years with ease no doubt. GM, DCX, and BMW already know this which is why they've had to join forces on the whole hybrid issue. You know there is real sense of urgency anytime you get Mercedes-Benz and BMW to work together on anything. They all say they'll have hybrids on sale for the 2008 model year. Either way they won't be going for absolute power they'll be geared towards economy. I suspect that Mercedes hasn't been able to certify the Bluetecs for NY/Cali type markets yet because all the buzz is indicating that the GL/R/ML/E diesels that go on sale this fall will still be 45-state models only with the certification for the other 5 states coming for the 2008 model year. Dicey information at best at this point. I don't think any of the European carmakers will ever commit the resources to topple Toyota in hybrids because they believe in diesels and every market but the U.S. re-affirms that belief. Now I do expect Mercedes and BMW to do a diesel-hybrid which will be the ultimate in torque and MPG, but that is still likely 2-3 years off and there will still be the diesel issue to contend with. M
#14773 of 24699 Re: Initial impression [merc1] by hpowders Apr 13, 2006 (12:14 am)
Replying to: merc1 (Apr 12, 2006 8:38 pm) Totally agree. Maybe these folks who are so ecstatic about hybrids should check out the significantly reduced trunk space. As of now hybrids are not very practical vehicles. I would try an LS 600h out of curiosity, but I would also be opening the trunk-probably the place the Lexus salesman would be sitting on. I don't foresee hybrids outselling their regular engine counterparts anytime soon. Replies to this message: syswei (Apr 13, 2006 3:34 am)
#14774 of 24699 Ok, my official assessment. by drfill Apr 13, 2006 (3:04 am)
(This crowd has gone deathly silent....) The car is MUCH better styled than the 760 or S600. This is a good thing! I'm fully confident it has enough features to handle the S600, head-to-head. If it starts anywhere south of $100k, it is a great value compared to the Germans, especially the S600. My problem is, if it's not going to be out until next April, why put it now? I don't se how this helps the 460, which isn't out either. It hurts it more than helps it! I would've done this half-hearted intro in Tokyo, and then the full specs in Detroit next year. Then in Ny next year, you can say "Arriving in showrooms this week!", or whatever. I would feel better if the said "450+HP". I want to be sure it exceeds the 760, plus gets 60-70% better mileage (real-world). Since the V12 in the Benz is twin-turbo charged, Mercedes has no intention of losing a HP war, and Lexus doesn't need, or wnat to fight that. The design is elegant and expensive. They styling is clean, confident, and two steps above the LS430. The fact that AWD is standard will be big in the Northeast, and Chicago. IF it's going to be $40k less than a S600, similar in size and appointments, to some better looking, maybe .5 seconds slower, but maybe 10 MPG more efficient, and has all this hype behind it, with a heavy rep to match, the S600 has a much tougher road to hoe. My pause is more about the marketing this way, at this time. I wouldn't do it this way, with a full year to go, and the 460 not out for 6 months. The 760 is done, and the S600 is walking out of NY with a several limp! There's still some Kool-Aid left. And a smile! DrFill Replies to this message: merc1 (Apr 13, 2006 3:54 am)
#14775 of 24699 hpowders...hybrids and trunk space by syswei Apr 13, 2006 (3:34 am)
Replying to: hpowders (Apr 13, 2006 12:14 am) I am personally very disappointed that to get AWD in an LS, I would have to get the 600h, and lose trunk space as compare to a LS460. So there, you have one Lexus fan who is aware of the issue. Maybe there will be an S 4-matic in my future after all! Too early to tell, but I will cross shop it whent the time comes.
#14776 of 24699 Re: Ok, my official assessment. [drfill] by merc1 Apr 13, 2006 (3:54 am)
Replying to: drfill (Apr 13, 2006 3:04 am) Sounds very half-hearted to me. Something is missing in the post compared to the posts from a couple days that talked about how the other shoe was going to drop. Saying the LS is better styled (which it isn't) than the new S-Class isn't going to cut it. This car needed 500hp to make the type of splash you anticipated. The 760 is hardly "done" because I'm betting the LS600h still won't match the BMW once the road becomes interesting and with almost equal hp ratings I don't see much advantage other than fuel ecomony for the LS600h. Since the V12 in the Benz is twin-turbo charged, Mercedes has no intention of losing a HP war, and Lexus doesn't need, or wnat to fight that. If that is what you have to tell yourself to be ok with 430hp then ok. M
#14777 of 24699 Lifestyles of the rich and famous by designman Apr 13, 2006 (5:20 am)
Up against the S600 and 760? Do they even sell 500 cars a year in the US between the two of them? I wouldn’t be surprised if the LS600h does very well or bombs. BMW can hardly sell a car over $100K. Let’s see what Lexus can do. You know, this car is in a totally different realm now, and the people who are used to spending this kind of money are Euro-car buyers. Can they turn Lexican? Are they excited about hybrid tech? And I’m not talking about the Hollywood greenies. The LS600h is on the hybrid leading edge and from this vista it is interesting to watch. Other than that I think it is uneventful from a sales point of view. The hybrids at the low end are more significant. Tagman, your Panamera could very well have a hybrid at some point. As you may know, it is expected to share an engine with Cayenne which will be the first recipient of Porsche’s foray into hybrid. I’m thinking Panamera could wind up with a lot of variants. It had better. I mean why limit the market to an exotic? Even Cayenne has 4 variants ranging from $42-112K. So, are you putting your deposit on the $150K Panamera Turbo S or what? Replies to this message: syswei (Apr 13, 2006 5:24 am) designman (Apr 13, 2006 5:31 am) tagman (Apr 13, 2006 6:29 am) designman (Apr 13, 2006 8:13 am)
#14778 of 24699 Re: Lifestyles of the rich and famous [designman] by syswei Apr 13, 2006 (5:24 am)
Replying to: designman (Apr 13, 2006 5:20 am) I think we don't really know what the pricing will be like on this car. Personally I believe the NYT number of 125k is going to prove way too high. Replies to this message: designman (Apr 13, 2006 5:31 am)
#14779 of 24699 Re: Lifestyles of the rich and famous [syswei] by designman Apr 13, 2006 (5:31 am)
Replying to: syswei (Apr 13, 2006 5:24 am) I'm thinking even $95K puts it in that realm.
#14780 of 24699 Re: Hybrid MPG [ljflx] by houdini1 Apr 13, 2006 (5:32 am)
Replying to: ljflx (Apr 12, 2006 7:10 pm) That is my point. In the larger hybrids it is more about power than mpg, so don't expect the LS600h to get 30 mpg in the real world because it just won't. Should have plenty of power though. Replies to this message: syswei (Apr 13, 2006 5:54 am)
#14781 of 24699 2002 Acura RL by houdini1 Apr 13, 2006 (5:45 am)
Some of you will remember that I recently bought this car to use as a daily driver and to haul my golf buddies around in. So far I like it a lot. In my opinion it feels more like a performance sedan than a helm. Just yesterday I drove a 2006 ES 350 on about a 60 mile round trip(loaner car)so I got a good opportunity to compare the two. The ES actually felt like a bigger car. It was quieter and the engine was smoother. The only place I would fault it is in the actual driving experience. You get absolutely no feedback from the steering wheel. It felt completely numb to me. In the Acura you are not just along for the ride but you are a part of it. You can feel the steering and the road. A feel that I much prefer. I do not get the numb feeling with my LX 470. Nor have I experienced it in the LS that I have driven many times. It is just in the ES, not only this time but any time I have driven this car. Replies to this message: lexusguy (Apr 13, 2006 6:44 am) houdini1 (Apr 13, 2006 12:06 pm) lexusguy (Apr 13, 2006 8:16 pm)