High End Luxury Cars

24697 messages, Last post on Nov 28, 2009 at 3:09 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens

What is this discussion about? Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan

Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.

A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.

Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.

Outline

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#14740 of 24697 Re: Australian press release LS600h [merc1] by blkhemi Apr 12, 2006 (2:35 pm)
Replying to: merc1 (Apr 12, 2006 12:48 pm) It can be done Merc. My Corvette Z06 has 505-hp on tap, and it returns 17/28 mpg, near hi-po V-6 fuel economy. In fact, it gets better fuel economy the M35 and about the same as BMW's 3.0L(5-Series) and Jag's Ford Duratec 3.0L V-6(S-Type). And all this from 7.0L's of pushrod V-8 american muscle. True enough it weighs about 1500 pounds lighter than the upcoming 4th-gen LS, but it's technology is old school compared to the LS. So Toyota/Lexus can definetely squeeze 20/25-30 mpg out of this more modern powertrain with careful engineering, in typical Toyota fashion. I read in Autocar that Toyota re-engineered the HSD specifically for this car due to it's more explosive technology and higher curb weight over other HSD hybrid-equipped cars. Replies to this message: merc1 (Apr 12, 2006 8:21 pm)
#14741 of 24697 LS460/600hL by blkhemi Apr 12, 2006 (2:52 pm)
The new LS is a total knockout. The car makes the current model look dated, not very much so, but it is noticeable. But I do have one little niggle with it. I can't help but see a little 7-Series backed into the rear fender and 1/4 panel sections. And where the rear roofline tapers off, it is vaguely familiar of the '02-'06 Camry/ES. But this is in no way a dis to the new car. The L-Finesse styling works here best, IMO. The car is definetely a looker. Let's just hope Lexus didn't forget about the bones and rubber department this go 'round. I suspect that the LS600hL hooked up to AWD will surely have a tighter handle on twisties and quick directional changes over the somewhat delayed reaction of the current model, albeit still a step or two behind the best from Europe.
#14742 of 24697 Re: Initial impression [ljflx] by tagman Apr 12, 2006 (2:58 pm)
Replying to: ljflx (Apr 12, 2006 1:35 pm) I don't think anyone is holding anything in the dark on diesels. Sure about that? Audi will release a diesel in their new suv, but has not announced it in a sedan. Of course, my mind says that it will come in the sedan, anyway, but they do not want to hurt current ICE vehicles. (I am not an Audi buyer, however). Maybe I am wrong. And then there is the BluTech diesel from Mercedes which will show up in the E-Class and then the GL . . . so what about the S with the BluTech? Do you think that I am way out on a limb here? TagMan Replies to this message: ljflx (Apr 12, 2006 3:48 pm)
#14743 of 24697 Re: Initial impression [tagman] by ljflx Apr 12, 2006 (3:48 pm)
Replying to: tagman (Apr 12, 2006 2:58 pm) I'm not following it as close as you so you'd know a lot better than me. But I'd think that what you may be looking at happens in Europe and not here. Still too many diesel issues here for me to role the dice if I'm a manufacturer. If you go down that road with a big investment and it fails than you could become a car version of the Betamax. Risk is high and there is no guarantee of a reward. There;s no low hanging fruit there. That goes in the low quadrant of my strategy circles.
#14744 of 24697 Re: Australian press release LS600h [merc1] by designman Apr 12, 2006 (3:59 pm)
Replying to: merc1 (Apr 12, 2006 12:48 pm) I too expected 500hp, but it would take a miracle to get V6-like fuel economy with 500 horses of any kind. True. In addition, and I’m just speculating but the last I read about CVTs, which was quite some time ago, they are not easy to build strong, so maybe it is possible that Lexus reached the tolerance level with the torque it could handle. Another thing is it probably doesn’t make business sense to make quantum leaps with power. Gotta save room for the sequel.
#14745 of 24697 Re: Initial impression [ljflx] by designman Apr 12, 2006 (4:00 pm)
Replying to: ljflx (Apr 12, 2006 1:35 pm) If the gas hybrids get too far away from the pack then this is a repeat of Secretariats record breaking Belmont in speed and distance. That's really optimistic. As enthused as I am about hybrids, I have to believe there is going to be no running away from the pack until there is a distinct economic benefit to the consumer. The costliness of hybrids is rampant in the press and I think this has to be overcome. Frankly, I don’t think they can be produced at the same cost as a lone gas engine. It seems to defy logic. At some point we may be forced to drive them, but we will also pay for it.
#14746 of 24697 NY Times re LS600hL by syswei Apr 12, 2006 (4:20 pm)
Is It Real? Yes. So real, in fact, that Mercedes-Benz and BMW executives were seen running from the press conference to convene strategy meetings. article here Replies to this message: stevekilburn (Apr 12, 2006 4:29 pm)
#14747 of 24697 More on the LS. by blkhemi Apr 12, 2006 (4:23 pm)
With an estimated 380hp on tap, and a class first 8-speed gearbox(1up on MBZ's fantastic 7-Gtronic), this thing may be swifter than we know. If the current model is possessed with 278-hp and "only" 6 foward gears, and scoots to 60 in less than 6 seconds, then it seems unlikely that the new model will be slower. Total curb weights are still sketchy right now, but I don't expect the mainstream LS460 to put drastically more weight on over the current model, especially since Toyota/Lexus has announced the more intense use of aluminum on this car. The hood,roof,trunklid, and all doors are said to be of aluminum. And If this reads out, then the LS460 could indeed slash up to a full second off of the 0-60 time of the current model, which could mean the gas-sipping/performance beast 600hL would have to be faster still, altho providing better f/e, much in the same way of the RX.
#14748 of 24697 LS600hL- The perfect cocoon for your dreamgirl by stevekilburn Apr 12, 2006 (4:29 pm)
Replying to: syswei (Apr 12, 2006 4:20 pm) Now thats something. I only hope it has that feeling of being wafted as we are driven with a glass of champagne in our hands. Now quickly summon your dreamgirl before she vanishes in thin air in someone else's LS600hL
#14749 of 24697 Re: Australian press release LS600h [merc1] by oac Apr 12, 2006 (4:31 pm)
Replying to: merc1 (Apr 12, 2006 12:48 pm) I think you guys may have hyped yourselves up a little to much and were expecting too much. Truthfully though I too expected 500hp, but it would take a miracle to get V6-like fuel economy with 500 horses of any kind. Yeah... way too much expectation from Lexus on this super-sedan. But this car is a stunner !!! You gotta see that this car epitomizes the L-Finesse design. Besides, it spots a few other key ingredients - a new 5L V8 motor rather than the 4.6L, and a 2-stage CVT tranny. Both new to Lexus... I suppose when they work out the HP/TQ ratings, a few handling and performance issues, and price it right under $100K LOADED, it should win a few buyers off the V-12 market from MB/BMW/Audi. It is really amazing tho' that a 380HP LS460, or a 430HP+ LS600hL would have mpg in the mid-20s range... My 278HP LS400 does 18mpg and sometimes that is a stretch. Imagine adding 100 more ponies in the LS460, and the gas mileage actually increases ??? Incredible... That is why I feel contented with a SWB LS460, priced right in the mid-60s. At least I can hope, eh ? Replies to this message: merc1 (Apr 12, 2006 8:26 pm) oac (Apr 12, 2006 8:53 pm) merc1 (Apr 12, 2006 9:06 pm) and 4 more...