High End Luxury Cars

24698 messages, Last post on Nov 30, 2009 at 1:20 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens

What is this discussion about? Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan

Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.

A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.

Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.

Outline

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#14735 of 24698 Re: Australian press release LS600h [ljflx] by merc1 Apr 12, 2006 (12:48 pm)
Replying to: ljflx (Apr 12, 2006 8:24 am) Could be but I doubt it, that doesn't happen very often with luxury car makers, in fact the only difference is usually a conversion issue, not specific tweaking for different markets. I can't think of one luxury car that has more power for certain markets and less for others. I think you guys may have hyped yourselves up a little to much and were expecting too much. Truthfully though I too expected 500hp, but it would take a miracle to get V6-like fuel economy with 500 horses of any kind. M Replies to this message: blkhemi (Apr 12, 2006 2:35 pm) merc1 (Apr 12, 2006 8:21 pm) designman (Apr 12, 2006 3:59 pm) oac (Apr 12, 2006 4:31 pm) merc1 (Apr 12, 2006 8:26 pm) oac (Apr 12, 2006 8:53 pm) and 5 more...
#14736 of 24698 Re: U.S. press release LS600hL [syswei] by hpowders Apr 12, 2006 (12:50 pm)
Replying to: syswei (Apr 12, 2006 6:12 am) Very impressive improvement style-wise, IMO, judging by those photos. Long over-due! Even the steering wheel looks much better! I will be checking out the new LS 460 even though I'm a BMW man. Call it natural curiosity. I also agree that HELM's will be dominated by MB and Lexus. People in this rarified price range usually place luxury over performance, as well they should, and hence, it is not a comfortable segment for BMW to be competing in. Thanks for the photo link! Replies to this message: syswei (Apr 12, 2006 12:56 pm) hpowders (Apr 12, 2006 1:03 pm)
#14737 of 24698 Re: U.S. press release LS600hL [hpowders] by syswei Apr 12, 2006 (12:56 pm)
Replying to: hpowders (Apr 12, 2006 12:50 pm) I will be checking out the new LS even though I'm a BMW man. Reading the press release, I would say that there is a huge emphasis on luxury over handling. My guess is that once it hits the showrooms, almost any BMW fan is bound to be disappointed by the LS600. Replies to this message: hpowders (Apr 12, 2006 1:03 pm)
#14738 of 24698 Re: U.S. press release LS600hL [syswei] by hpowders Apr 12, 2006 (1:03 pm)
Replying to: syswei (Apr 12, 2006 12:56 pm) I don't know. 12 cylinder power with 8 cylinder fuel economy sounds enticing enough for me to try one next spring. Very impressed with the photos. The LS is the HELM of choice in my community. Shouldn't take long after the release of the LS460 in October for me to spot one. I read that the new Camry's handling has been improved. I would expect the LS to follow suit.
#14739 of 24698 Re: Initial impression [tagman] by ljflx Apr 12, 2006 (1:35 pm)
Replying to: tagman (Apr 12, 2006 11:26 am) I thought you'd be an S-class buyer but holdout till the LS600 release and then be torn between the two. I don't think anyone is holding anything in the dark on diesels. This isn't a global issue. MB and BMW badly need success in the american market. If there's a marketable diesel car there and I'm a fierce competitor I'd let the world know what's coming. If the gas hybrids get too far away from the pack then this is a repeat of Secretariats record breaking Belmont in speed and distance. Replies to this message: tagman (Apr 12, 2006 2:58 pm) ljflx (Apr 12, 2006 3:48 pm) designman (Apr 12, 2006 4:00 pm) merc1 (Apr 12, 2006 8:38 pm) oac (Apr 12, 2006 9:14 pm) merc1 (Apr 12, 2006 9:19 pm) tagman (Apr 12, 2006 9:40 pm) merc1 (Apr 12, 2006 10:12 pm) hpowders (Apr 13, 2006 12:14 am) syswei (Apr 13, 2006 3:34 am)
#14740 of 24698 Re: Australian press release LS600h [merc1] by blkhemi Apr 12, 2006 (2:35 pm)
Replying to: merc1 (Apr 12, 2006 12:48 pm) It can be done Merc. My Corvette Z06 has 505-hp on tap, and it returns 17/28 mpg, near hi-po V-6 fuel economy. In fact, it gets better fuel economy the M35 and about the same as BMW's 3.0L(5-Series) and Jag's Ford Duratec 3.0L V-6(S-Type). And all this from 7.0L's of pushrod V-8 american muscle. True enough it weighs about 1500 pounds lighter than the upcoming 4th-gen LS, but it's technology is old school compared to the LS. So Toyota/Lexus can definetely squeeze 20/25-30 mpg out of this more modern powertrain with careful engineering, in typical Toyota fashion. I read in Autocar that Toyota re-engineered the HSD specifically for this car due to it's more explosive technology and higher curb weight over other HSD hybrid-equipped cars. Replies to this message: merc1 (Apr 12, 2006 8:21 pm)
#14741 of 24698 LS460/600hL by blkhemi Apr 12, 2006 (2:52 pm)
The new LS is a total knockout. The car makes the current model look dated, not very much so, but it is noticeable. But I do have one little niggle with it. I can't help but see a little 7-Series backed into the rear fender and 1/4 panel sections. And where the rear roofline tapers off, it is vaguely familiar of the '02-'06 Camry/ES. But this is in no way a dis to the new car. The L-Finesse styling works here best, IMO. The car is definetely a looker. Let's just hope Lexus didn't forget about the bones and rubber department this go 'round. I suspect that the LS600hL hooked up to AWD will surely have a tighter handle on twisties and quick directional changes over the somewhat delayed reaction of the current model, albeit still a step or two behind the best from Europe.
#14742 of 24698 Re: Initial impression [ljflx] by tagman Apr 12, 2006 (2:58 pm)
Replying to: ljflx (Apr 12, 2006 1:35 pm) I don't think anyone is holding anything in the dark on diesels. Sure about that? Audi will release a diesel in their new suv, but has not announced it in a sedan. Of course, my mind says that it will come in the sedan, anyway, but they do not want to hurt current ICE vehicles. (I am not an Audi buyer, however). Maybe I am wrong. And then there is the BluTech diesel from Mercedes which will show up in the E-Class and then the GL . . . so what about the S with the BluTech? Do you think that I am way out on a limb here? TagMan Replies to this message: ljflx (Apr 12, 2006 3:48 pm)
#14743 of 24698 Re: Initial impression [tagman] by ljflx Apr 12, 2006 (3:48 pm)
Replying to: tagman (Apr 12, 2006 2:58 pm) I'm not following it as close as you so you'd know a lot better than me. But I'd think that what you may be looking at happens in Europe and not here. Still too many diesel issues here for me to role the dice if I'm a manufacturer. If you go down that road with a big investment and it fails than you could become a car version of the Betamax. Risk is high and there is no guarantee of a reward. There;s no low hanging fruit there. That goes in the low quadrant of my strategy circles.
#14744 of 24698 Re: Australian press release LS600h [merc1] by designman Apr 12, 2006 (3:59 pm)
Replying to: merc1 (Apr 12, 2006 12:48 pm) I too expected 500hp, but it would take a miracle to get V6-like fuel economy with 500 horses of any kind. True. In addition, and I’m just speculating but the last I read about CVTs, which was quite some time ago, they are not easy to build strong, so maybe it is possible that Lexus reached the tolerance level with the torque it could handle. Another thing is it probably doesn’t make business sense to make quantum leaps with power. Gotta save room for the sequel.