High End Luxury Cars

24700 messages, Last post on Dec 01, 2009 at 12:24 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens

What is this discussion about? Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan

Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.

A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.

Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.

Outline

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#14682 of 24700 Re: Merc, I already won this argument! [ljflx] by tagman Apr 11, 2006 (10:45 am)
Replying to: ljflx (Apr 10, 2006 11:17 am) I used to work in the liquor industry a long time ago. drinking or marketing? So it is with diesel - it'll just never get started here and it's so hard to invest in a technology that has been rejected. Hybrids though are a natural and seamless extension of gas. I agree with this, but to a lesser point. You use the word never regarding the diesels, and when I consider that such a large number of vehicles in Europe are diesels, I find myself going back to basics here. With more expensive fuel costs, diesels represented the long-standing ONLY alternative. Obviously there were no hybrids all those years. So, let's cross the Atlantic and come back to the good 'ol USA, and recognize that for the most part during our history, fuel has been cheap enough to go through the years of muscle cars and giant SUV's. But now, there is change in the wind, and with the new generation of diesels that will be offered over the next years, I think we will see diesels slowly take a foothold for the first time in our history that could be considered significant. Yes, I agree with you about the logical extension of hybrid technology and it will be marketed successfully. But I also now am witnessing an interesting polarization of the hybrid. In other words, I think the hybrid will do very well at the economical end of the spectrum, where it actually financially pays for itself in real monetary terms, such as the Prius and Honda Civic Hybrid, and the upcoming Honda Fit . . . AND hybrid technology will probably do well in the upper end, such as with the upcoming Lexus LS600h. This polarization that I am predicting will leave the middle ground open for more efficient ICE engines and DIESELS, IMO. Additionally, diesels can gain ground in the economical end of the spectrum, alongside the hybrids, AND the upper end of the spectrum, in the HELMS. I have a firm belief, especially when I consider some of the passionate posts on this and the LPS forums, that MANY folks would just LOVE to have a terrific car with a terrific diesel as its powerplant. One hour ago, I heard on the news that gasoline will rise at least 25 cents per gallon this summer. This will flirt with the $3 + per gallon area again . . . and that seems to be the trigger point for folks to start complaining and looking for alternatives. And it will get worse, given the international political and business structure at this point in time. (The China factor, the Iran factor, etc.) Anyway, I am not as pessimistic about diesel's potential in the marketplace as you seem to be. I am more optimistic and think that both hybrids and diesels will make progress. It will be interesting indeed. TagMan Replies to this message: lexusguy (Apr 11, 2006 11:14 am) tagman (Apr 11, 2006 12:41 pm) 2001gs430 (Apr 11, 2006 12:53 pm) hpowders (Apr 11, 2006 2:02 pm) pat (Apr 11, 2006 2:26 pm) and 1 more... ljflx (Apr 11, 2006 5:21 pm) tagman (Apr 11, 2006 7:11 pm)
#14683 of 24700 Re: Merc, I already won this argument! [tagman] by lexusguy Apr 11, 2006 (11:14 am)
Replying to: tagman (Apr 11, 2006 10:45 am) It will be very interesting to see how the Camry hybrid does in terms of sales, as that car is the epitome of the "middle ground" mainstream hybrid sedan. Americans are of course in love with the Camry, but will they love the hybrid? Toyota was smart to pair up HSD with the 4-cyl Camry. I'm sure they watched the Accord Hybrid's bomb in the market very closely. Nobody wants to pay $33K+ for an Accord. The Escape and the Highlander hybrid are also not as popular as they once were. Are hybrids a fad? Replies to this message: tagman (Apr 11, 2006 12:41 pm) 2001gs430 (Apr 11, 2006 12:53 pm) hpowders (Apr 11, 2006 2:02 pm) pat (Apr 11, 2006 2:26 pm) houdini1 (Apr 11, 2006 3:28 pm)
#14684 of 24700 No doubt in my mind, LG! by drfill Apr 11, 2006 (11:27 am)
With gas at $3 a gallon this summer, and a Camry getting 40MPG, do you think it'll be a tough sell? For about the cost of a V6 Camry? They will sell everyone they build this year (46k). Timing is everything? We bow to your wisdom, Mighty 'Yota! DrFill
#14685 of 24700 Anyone Else See The GS As A Car In Search Of A Mission? by psychdoc Apr 11, 2006 (11:39 am)
It's small, cramped, underpowered and entirely uninspiring. It doesn't have anywhere near as many bells and whistles as the new ES and is not as sprty as the IS. Now add to this losing formula that it's ugly as sin and looks like a hatchback and what do you have? "L-O-S-E-R" Lexus should just admit it took a shot and missed.They missed miserably and they should go back to the drawing boards with this disaster. This car is a serious mistake. Replies to this message: hpowders (Apr 11, 2006 5:08 pm)
#14686 of 24700 Come on, P-Doc! by drfill Apr 11, 2006 (11:46 am)
Talk about beating a dead horse! Let it go, just let it go. DrFill Replies to this message: psychdoc (Apr 11, 2006 12:10 pm)
#14687 of 24700 Hey folks ... by pat HOST Apr 11, 2006 (11:54 am)
we really should try to keep our, um, focus on the high end cars.
#14688 of 24700 Re: Come on, P-Doc! [drfill] by psychdoc Apr 11, 2006 (12:10 pm)
Replying to: drfill (Apr 11, 2006 11:46 am) The GS has been savaged around here before?
#14689 of 24700 Re: Merc, I already won this argument! [lexusguy] by tagman Apr 11, 2006 (12:41 pm)
Replying to: lexusguy (Apr 11, 2006 11:14 am) Yes it will be interesting, because up until now, there is no "middle ground" winner out there. The Lexus LS600h, which debuts tomorrow, will be the ultimate hybrid, at the top end of the spectrum and should do very well. The economical end of the spectrum is already a confirmed success. The middle ground, though, is large and the Camry will be towards the bottom of it. In fact, possibly low enough to be swept into the top of the lower end category as time goes, but we'll see. A diesel in the S class will be something to watch closely. Will Lexus enter into that arena? Even Jaguar has a wonderful diesel in their Euro XJ, and will it be available here eventually? Audi can do wonders with a diesel and what about BMW? You asked if hybrids are a fad, and I think that with Toyota's and Honda's huge committment to them, the answer is no . . . at least for a while in history. I believe that a different longer term solution will come, but progress comes in steps and I believe that the hybrid is a positive step along the way. Personally, I like the technology of hybrid vehicles, but I am attracted to the modern diesel. The last one I tried was in the E-class recently and I was pleasantly surprised with its performance. In consideration of the past and future, diesels will most likely have a longer historical life span than hybrids ever will . . . unless they get married, and we have the hybrid diesel as the next step until hydrogen finally makes its way. Yikes, maybe even hybrid bio-diesel before hydrogen. Who knows? A step at a time, TagMan Replies to this message: 2001gs430 (Apr 11, 2006 12:53 pm)
#14690 of 24700 I really like that idea by 2001gs430 Apr 11, 2006 (12:53 pm)
Replying to: tagman (Apr 11, 2006 12:41 pm) unless they get married, and we have the hybrid diesel as the next step until hydrogen finally makes its way Imagine that, buy a luxury car that would be a blast to drive and fueling up only 12 times or less a year...
#14691 of 24700 I've seen fit to start a LS600h discussion in Future Vehicles! by drfill Apr 11, 2006 (1:10 pm)
Since the World Premiere is tomorrow, timing is everything. This is not just another LS! This car is LS squared! So cool, it needs it's own, dedicated, fan club! I'm ready to party like it's 1989! DrFill Replies to this message: tagman (Apr 11, 2006 1:39 pm)