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Sedans High End Luxury Cars
24700 messages, Last post on Dec 01, 2009 at 12:24 PM
You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
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Replying to: designman (Apr 07, 2006 3:17 am) Woah, I never said that I think the SC400 is the best looking car ever, or that its one of my favorite cars. When I was talking about the SC400's styling, I meant in context to a 1992 car design. When the SC hit back then, it looked great, certainly much better than the Lincoln Mark VIII, the BMW 8 series (still had pop up headlights!) and the Benz S-class coupe\CL class. The critics at the time also praised the car's styling, and it earned a 10-best award. The SC430 certainly has more booty, I will give you that. But it was an ugly car in 2001, and its still ugly. |
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Replying to: drfill (Apr 07, 2006 5:22 am) I'm the proud owner of '06 A8 W-12 and am very impressed with the car. Top quality and craftsmanship SHOULD be the focus of the perspective buyer, not because it sales so well I guess I'll buy one too. I've owned all of the big-league rides, most recently a S65 AMG and BMW 760il. Both were great cars, respectively. And yes, they do outsell the Audi, by quite a wide margin. But it's the build quality and customer service of the Audi that did it for me. Maybe it's the small dealer network that affords such great customer service. But it does work. Not something that I can say for my recent experiences with Mercedes and Lexus. Lexus,M-B,BMW,Jag, even Caddy outsell Audi. Yet somehow this makes the car look bad. Not necessarily true. The A8 is more that deserving of a place in the big-leagues, sales or not. |
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Replying to: drfill (Apr 06, 2006 10:57 am) Anyway, Doc, I wanted to get back to you on that SC stuff we were ping ponging with. Here's what you said, Doc: Calling the SC a "Loser" kind of contradicts this "respect" for Lexus, of which you speak. Not at all. C’mon now, Doc. I absolutely do respect Lexus, but NOBODY bats 1000. As far as the Mercedes R goes, I am already on record on that one. But once again comparing the SC to other vehicles with issues, or to losers, whether the R, XLR, or anything else, does not somehow change or elevate the status of the SC. Let me put it this way . . . Placing the SC in the gloomy shadow of other losers is not the best way to view the SC, IMO. Is the SC well crafted? Yes, of course, but that’s simply not enough. Like I said, Lexus is aware of this and the replacement will be proof of a better direction. If I truly believed I have unfairly slammed the SC, I would be apologizing right now . . . but what I do believe is that history will prove that a future replacement Lexus sports coupe will more likely be a real “winner”, and it surely won’t be the current SC.  TagMan
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Here's more like what I would expect from Lexus in the sports coupe department: (play the video) http://www.autospies.com/article/index.asp?articleId=7004&categoryId=23 But here's the one (from our friends at BMW) that I really like!!!!: http://www.autospies.com/article/index.asp?articleId=7006&categoryId=21 TagMan |
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Replying to: blkhemi (Apr 07, 2006 2:17 pm) How well a car does in its category determines alot about its fate. Slow selling cars are withdrawn or overhauled, good sellers are lauded by the motor co. and beloved by dealers. The A8 is a fine car, but it clearly can't match the salea of the BMW or Benz or Lexus. Consider the A8's twin, the VW Phaeton. A car with "loser" clearly stamped on its hood. As a car it may be a fine one, but it hasn't clicked with its intended market demographic. Resale is also different for the winners and loser in the auto market. A8's have been wonderful bargains on the used market because of their also ran status. According to Manheim, a 2002 Audi S8 w/ 50k will fetch  $25,000 at auction. A 2002 BMW 745i w/ 50k will fetch $35,000, ditto for the S500. The S8 started at $72000 that year, the bimmer $68,000. If you are buying used, the S8 is the way to go, but if you bought one new, your taking a 10k bath compared to a bimmer owner.
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Replying to: tagman (Apr 07, 2006 2:41 pm)
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Replying to: lexusguy (Apr 07, 2006 3:15 pm) Good point, Lexusguy. And, of course, Toyota/Lexus has a treasure chest of resources to do something about it expeditiously. I give them credit (and respect, in case the Doc is reading  ) for acting quickly. TagMan |
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Replying to: houdini1 (Apr 06, 2006 6:17 pm) Benzster - I see the service department 6 times in 3 years and that is why I am going to buy a car??? You've got to be kidding with that comment - it's as far out in left field as it gets. |
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| Its been a well-rested 3 months away from HELM. I see I haven't been missed.... maybe Designman or Merc1, eh ? I must confess I did miss many of you, so I hope to re-acquaint myself back to the board... all in due time... First, gotta catch up on many of these posts.. Lots to read. | |
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1. I didn't call the A8 a loser, but I said "I can see how someone would call it a Loser" There is a difference. The LS might be better than all the premium sedans you can name, but the A8, to me, is the MOST desirable! 2. My point is getting twisted quickly, and often. As I've said several times before, there is more than one way to be a "winner" in the marketplace. YOu can outshine others dynamically, in comparisons, change the marketplace, or just outsell the competition. By comparing the SC to cars that are "Losing" in the market or segments, I am disproving the SC as a "Loser". I don't believe in degrees of "Loser". The A8 doesn't sell, and doesn't win comparisons. And it hasn't affected it's segment, except to bring in the Pheaton, which was a true "Loser". AS MUCH AS I LIKE THE A8, I'd have to slap a "Loser" tag on it. That kinda goes for the Audi line, in general. It really isn't the A8's fault. The company hasn't made any headway over the last 10-15 years. Lexus has conquered countries in 10 years, what has Audi done again? The SC has EXCEEDED sales expectation for 4 years in a row. Does Lexus, or it's many owners, see it as a loser? Resale values? How they doin'? Ok. For Lexus, I'd call the ES250 (1990-1992), the GS300 (1993-1997), and the IS300 (2001-2005), "Losers". That's all. Considering many companies are currently dragging 2 or 3 around, per year, that's pretty impressive, for 15+ years! There's a difference between cars you may not like, and "losers". DrFill |
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