Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#14532 of 24726 Re: Merc [drfill]
Apr 06, 2006 (7:43 am)
It [SC] is a good value compared to the SLK, due to engine and chassis size, and much more luxury inside.
Ba ding, boing #*?!! ring a ling bling… that one sure trips my circuit breakers.
To each his own, and yes, the SC is no sales loser, but if a car is going to have two seats, it really needs an iota of performance. In March 2005 R&T did a sports car comparo and the SLK came in last but very close to the 350Z, Z4 and even the Viper (which is on another planet) however it still garnered considerable respect ESPECIALLY with regard to the engine. Too bad the SC didn’t have a stick in order to get into the comparo. Then you’d really see what a loser it is. As far as I’m concerned, the SLK (all versions) is the bargain Mercedes. This will probably set off other circuit breakers, but I'm thinking that perhaps the T-Bird is more of a "bargain" than the SC.
#14533 of 24726 Re: Lexus Experience [docnukem]
Apr 06, 2006 (7:56 am)
Is there another vehicle that offers seamless integration of your i Pod into the audio system using steering wheel controls and a visual display of track info all the while charging in a docking station ????? How about a PCMCIA memory slot? SD and compact flash cards can be used with adapter enabling you pc to be used to digitally transfer music to the vehicle........
Can the others adjust their Multicontour seats 15 pneumatic chambers to 4 settings of message thru the comand system via voice control.
Or better yet the question.... what do they have that we don't?
#14534 of 24726 Re: Merc [designman]
Apr 06, 2006 (7:58 am)
#14535 of 24726 Re: Merc [benzster]
Apr 06, 2006 (8:02 am)
Are you asking about the comparo? The 350 with stick. It's a shame the 55 only has auto... scratchin' my head over that one.
Apr 06, 2006 (8:05 am)
Some people don't want a six.
Some people can't fit into an SLK.
Some people see the SLK as a toy, not a luxury GT they want.
More than some people don't row their own gears for $55k.
The SLK is really a competitor for Boxster and Z4, not heavyweights like SC, XK, and SL. The SLK is more than an SL, too.
My point is if you sit in and drive both cars, you'll see why they both have sold well, and are successes in their own right.
The SC can do 60 in less than 6 seconds, and has great brakes, so it can perform very well, it just is not designed for great handling. Considering the fact that Americans rarely use a car's handling limits, this is a non-factor to many buyers. Everybody uses gas and brakes, and Lexus knows that, so you get plenty of both.
The SLK is much smaller inside, and is fast, but it takes more effort to use. The SL is prettier, and has more overall ability.
The SC has tons of lux, a smooth V8 with great power, and has the typical "Lexus traits" that bring buyers in, easy to use, pop-up NAV, well-built, plenty of bling, trusted brand.
It's a very strong value, compared to either Benz convertible.
There are plenty of #1 songs that I hate, but if you make it to #1, are you a "Loser"?
At the end of the day, that's all a maker is trying to do, is sell a car. If they sell cars, they can build value with good quality and service. If you do that you build resale values. If you do that, you build Brand Equity. If you do that, you increase Market Awareness.
Then people shop you BEFORE BMW, Infiniti, Mercedes. Then, with a strong sales force, the buyer never makes it to the competition.
Then you never become a "Loser".
#14537 of 24726 Re: Lexus Experience [benzster]
Apr 06, 2006 (8:12 am)
So by innovation you meant electronic comfort items and connectivity to non-automotive devices. I assumed you meant automotive innovation like engine and transmission breakthroughs (and certainly, MB has been known for that) rather than incorporating non-automotive technology for automotive uses.
Yes, many may see that as MB. Still, I would guess (again, as an outsider) that most people walking into MB dealerships would say design and prestige brought them there. As a dealer, you probably hear them talk about all of the gadgets after they have test-driven the cars.
It might be interesting for you to do an informal straw poll on the next dozen or so customers (new, not repeats) that you work with both before they see the vehicles and then afterwards (such as a simple, "What comes to mind when you think of MB?"). If you do, I'm sure many of us would like to hear the results.
Edit: I am assuming that you are an MB dealer, of course. "Innovation" may be something you are more keenly aware of, as it is something you need for differentiation of MBs from competitors when discussing vehicles with a customer. For example, I probably know all about a vehicles engine, transmission, acceleration stats, etc when I walk into a dealership, but I probably don't know all of the minutiae at my fingertips in the driver's seat.
#14538 of 24726 Re: Designman [drfill]
Apr 06, 2006 (8:41 am)
My issue has always been, Why compare a v-6 with a v-8 if you are doing a performance piece. If you compare similarly priced vehicles the MB will always fall short on performance. Put the V-8 against the V-8 and fail MB on price point only. 4.6 sec 0-60 on a SLK55. Innovation in drivetrane? How about a 7 speed tranny that will out perform a 6 speed manual. Antilock brakes and crumple zones were first incorporated on a Mercedes. Distronic Plus, Dynamic rear view monitor, Night view assist with infrared technology, cutting points for rescue workers to extract occupants if needed without deploying safety systems, and enhanced presafe systems all are innovations.
#14539 of 24726 Re: Designman [drfill]
Apr 06, 2006 (8:48 am)
I agree that if you are into Lexus luxury, then the SC makes sense, and obviously it does since so many people buy them. But I have problems with the value aspect. If I’m spending $66K on luxury, I go with a car that can fit 5 full-size adults… and get good handling with cargo space to boot. I respect other people’s choices but I guess two-seat luxury just doesn’t fit my mission statement.
SLK takes more effort to use than an SC? An SL at 1000 pounds more than an SLK has more ability than the latter? Hmm. I enjoy your posts and don’t feel like debating this. I love my Lexican amigos in spite of their general aversion to sports cars and performance sedans. Indeed, Lexus has a beat on its market.
#14540 of 24726 Re: Dr.Fill and the SC
Apr 06, 2006 (8:56 am)
Maybe the term "Loser" causes this confusion and greyish area.
Doc, I take full responsibility for originally injecting the word "loser" as it pertains to the SC (and XLR).
I don't think there is confusion as a result. Actually, there have been some very interesting and valuable perspectives posted on the vehicle, including many of our long-time respected posters.
I noticed an interesting statement you made at the end of one of your recent posts and I will display it here and then comment.
Doc, you said:
We will not see another XLR, but a "L-Finesse" designed SC460 for 2008 will prove the line has plenty of merit, and a bright future.
This statement, IMO, is very misleading, and yes, I will substantiate why I say that. Firstly, by saying that we will not see another XLR, do you really believe that Cadillac will not replace it eventually with a better sports coupe? In the same comparison, won't the SC be replaced by a better sports coupe, specifically a "L-Finesse" vehicle?
So, who cares how they badge the replacements? A replacement is a replacement, regardless of it's badge.
Just think about it . . . if they are both cancelled, and need to be replaced, then what's the difference? To me, that is essentially an admission by the manufacturers that the vehicles are basically "losers".
I sincerely hope the replacements will be successful . . . but any success of those upcoming replacements does not give any "success" status to the discontinued vehicles they replaced, as your statement granted solely to the SC.
See what I mean?
No hostility here at all, doc . . . just my honest opinion!
#14541 of 24726 Re: Lexus Experience [docnukem]
Apr 06, 2006 (8:58 am)
Yes I do work for MB. ;)So, back to the question of what draws one to a brand. Is it prestige? When I was in sales the first question, after what is your name etc., was "What is important to you and what are you driving now and why?".
If you add up the patents and innovations that have been brought to market from Manufacturers as a whole, which do you think would come out ahead? Maybe even the question of how many MB innovations compared to their own are on their cars??
If she is ugly, how will you ever know she has a great personality?
I am like most I think. Looks come first for me, drivability second, stuff third, and hope it stays together. I had a 67 912 that was a blast. That lets you know where I am coming from.