Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#14503 of 24723 Re: Tagman [drfill]
Apr 04, 2006 (11:25 pm)
"Lexus will be the Mercedes of the 21st Century! Build it slow and steady."
I think records speak the volume. While I still consider Mercedes as #1 luxury brand (not by sale figures or quality), it seems losing ground to Lexus in recent years (espcially among the elite buyers)and the gap will be widen if Mercedes does not improve its quality program or keep their customers happy.
According to the Luxury Customer Experience Index survey from New York-based Luxury Institute, Lexus "trounced" the competition as the luxury brand that delivers the best customer experience coming in ahead of the competition by five percentage points. Lexus also posted the highest ratings in the critical Customer Retention and Customer Referral indices. Second place went to Porsche and Acura came in a close third. Mercedes-Benz and BMW failed to rank in the top four.
Survey officials said Lexus won every category of Customer Experience Drivers, including brand effectiveness, brand attitude and top scores in most enthusiastic, most polite and most trustworthy representatives. They said Lexus also outshone its competition in dealerships.
For the survey, wealthy customers rated the top 11 luxury brands based on their direct individual experiences. The brands rated included Acura, Audi, BMW, Cadillac, Infiniti, Jaguar, Lexus, Lincoln, Mercedes, Porsche and Volvo. The Luxury Institute surveyed a nationally representative sample of some 2,100 households with a minimum of $200,000 gross annual income and net worth of $750,000, including home equity
#14504 of 24723 Re: Bangle may be good, but also a little over the top [tagman]
Apr 05, 2006 (12:58 am)
I prefer the Bangle 5 to its previous incarnation.
The E39 always reminded me of a stretched 3 series and was in serious need of a re-design,
You will get no argument from me that the pre-Bangle 3's have all been handsomer than the E90.
#14505 of 24723 Re: Bangle the King of deformities, his love, his passion [merc1]
Apr 05, 2006 (1:10 am)
Yes. I notice the E climbing up the sales ladder into second place.
Plenty of room at the top. Should give a jolt to BMW to try and do even better.
#14506 of 24723 Re: Bangle the King of deformities, his love, his passion [hpowders]
Apr 05, 2006 (3:09 am)
I suspect it will do more than climb into second place, it will be back at #1 by year's end, #1 being its traditional place prior to 2005.
#14507 of 24723 Re: Bangle the King of deformities, his love, his passion [merc1]
Apr 05, 2006 (4:28 am)
Let's see if MB can get its quality control house in order.
BMW has made a significant improvement in this area over the last several years.
#14508 of 24723 Re: Tagman [merc1]
Apr 05, 2006 (5:37 am)
I have to go with drfill on this one. You are the one that turned the talk of the SC430's "loserness" from sales to magazine comparison tests, not him.
I didnt like the SC430 when it hit in 2001, and I still dont like it. From a pure business stand point though, it HAS been an overall success for Lexus. The XLR overall has not been a success. The SC300\400 combined struggled to get 4-digit sales in their last few years on the market.
#14509 of 24723 Re: Tagman [lexusguy]
Apr 05, 2006 (5:42 am)
No actually Tagman called it a loser and Dr.Fill asked for something to back up that claim, hence my post about its dubious distinction of being a laggard when compared to the competition - something a Lexus isn't usually guilty of.
A GT car, more than a sedan is supposed to be about more than touting sales and if that (and the other usual Lexus traits like reliability) are the only things the SC offers instead of an actual driving experience and some style then that makes it a loser in my book, don't care how many of them they sell. For some sales make a Lexus superior, then a minute later it is a mag comparo wherever it fits best.
#14510 of 24723 Re: Tagman [lexus_jn]
Apr 05, 2006 (5:44 am)
LG - This is the exact attitude of all the Lexus owners I know. They are constant repeat buyers and are as satisfied as it gets. It's only on this board where performance rules as greatness (or in auto rags) that I can even find a negative comment on Lexus. The auto rags are getting more and more guarded about those comments lately because they see the popularity, sales success and future rollout which begets ad dollars. From a business pov you'd have to be suicidal to turn off Toyota and it's huge vault of money given all the ads that will pour in from retooling of the Lexus brand and the added promotions of all the coming hybrids Toyota is planning. In the real world of auto buyers Lexus rules, not only on quality and reliability but on customer satisfaction - even besting Porsche. Now when you add in the spice of added sport and added choices of cars (including cars that will start to run $150K+ prices) that is coming in the next 5 years this consumer satisfaction differential is going to widen further. If you notice it has been widening all along even while sport luxury has been the envy focus in the niche enthusiast world. That world is what it is - just a niche and not a representative of buyer choice. Others keep wnning the duels in the artificial world of car mags but on the real playing field Lexus is running away with race. I think some of the posters on this board are going to be shocked at the re-ranking of lux leaders 5 years from now. Like you I still vote MB No.1 in the space but it's days are numbered.
#14511 of 24723 Re: Tagman [ljflx]
Apr 05, 2006 (5:53 am)
The only problem with this fantasy is that it bascially assumes that Mercedes and others will stand still. For Lexus to attain the status of a Mercedes or BMW they have to appeal to that "artificial" world (as you call it) in some way that they don't now.
This pending date for Lexus' toppling Mercedes and BMW at the top of the image pile keeps getting pushed back. I seem to remember this same prediction at least 3 years ago.
Lexus will never replace BMW in the hearts and minds of driving enthusiasts and all Mercedes has to do is get their reliability/quality back because design wise Lexus still can't make them look or drive as good as a Benz, or BMW.
#14512 of 24723 The playpen, I mean workpen
Apr 05, 2006 (6:05 am)
Let's not fight about taste, design preference, style, or other personal preferences.
Indeed, no fighting. Be nice. NICE!
But arenít luxury and performance personal preferences? If people didnít debate styling and design preferences Iíd be out of a job. If I couldnít adapt to other peopleís design preferences, again, Iíd be out of a job. And lastly, if I couldnít apply my own personal preferences Ö you got itÖ Iíd be out of a job.
Designing and discussing styling is one of my jobs. Please donít try to put me out of work
While weíre on the subject of jobs, Iím wondering what happened to Monday Mornings with Merc. Heavens, itís Wednesday morning and Merc is coming aliveÖ heís ALIVE! Merc, you are throwing my whole daily routine out of whack, kind of like when there is a solar eclipse and the birds go nuts. Whatís with it, man! I guess Iíll have to adapt.