Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
Apr 04, 2006 (6:50 pm)
No need to be hostile.
I'm just sayin' the IS is better looking than the already good-looking 3-series. I have no malice agianst BMW or the 3, and I am willing to admit that the 3 is a better sports sedan, mostly because it is more space efficient, and it is not set-up to dissuade spirited driving, in the chassis, or in the tranny.
Lexus accomplished what they wanted, making a design that YOUNGER BUYERS WOULD BE DRAWN TO! It took the IS300, put in a true Lexus interior, and made it faster, but it sold out the drivability of the first-gen car. Lexus usually doesn't trade one desirable feature for another desirable feature, you usually get more of x, instead of y replacing x, but so be it.
Regarding comparing the XLR to the SC, if you want to call the SC "a loser", go right ahead, but I'd like one fact to back up that assertion. Please.
The XLR failed. The facts that I need are it never even reached 50% of the SC's best year (17k), and GM TRIED to say they only wanted to sell 3k a year, which is Garbage a La Carte!
No, Cadillac didn't want to sell more than 3-4k XLRs a year. Why would they want that? Is it a Ford GT or something? And I think a lot of people still remember Allante, and they are still paying for that fiasco.
Lexus said right from the "First Drives" previews in the mags that they wanted 10k in the first year (2003, was released in March, sold 17k in less than 10 months), and 8k a year after that (2004, 10k - 2005, 8k).
Regarding margins, there are two ways to produce speed, add power, or subtract weight. Toyota subtracts weight. Mercedes adds power. Both work. No one is bashing Mercedes or anyone else.
All I'm sayin' is comparing the way Toyota does bydnis, and how Toyota does it is insane! They are both automakers, that's where their similarities end.
Toyota/Lexus is in it for Long-term market share. Lexus will be the Mercedes of the 21st Century! Build it slow and steady.
The cars aren't as sporty as I want, but maybe luxury cars aren't supposed to be sporty?
Maybe that's what slogans are for, right?
#14490 of 24723 Re: low margin lexus, contentment and acid reflux [dhamilton]
Apr 04, 2006 (6:56 pm)
No. I'm not kidding - Audi - low margins low volume. We're talking 80K a year US sales from a full line mfr.
Tagman - been bullish and aggressive for sometime now. Market is still undervalued. Microsoft is going to shoot at some point here. I see a run to 33-35 on them.
#14491 of 24723 mercedes, lexus prices and resale value
Apr 04, 2006 (7:40 pm)
Resale value also depends on quality, reliability, strong character, timeless design, a special connection and love with the customer
and of course continuously raising the MSRP.
If Lexus raises the MSRP head-to-head compared to mercedes, then the resale values will rise.
Let Lexus and Mercedes Love each other and not argue anymore.
Apr 04, 2006 (7:46 pm)
Why not have Mercedes lower prices, by reducing costs?
Who says Mercedes pricing is correct? Maybe they're overpriced? What does an E350 start out at? $50K? Does that even come with Premium leather? Or decent cupholders?
#14493 of 24723 Re: mercedes, lexus prices and resale value [stevekilburn]
Apr 04, 2006 (8:11 pm)
Raising MSRP will certainly raise residuals on leased cars and protect the dealer network by ensuring some sort of resale value on their return lease cars. By radically discounting, MB will lower the demand for their used cars and reduce the value of their new car purchasers. I feel sorry for those who bought their 2005 s500 only to find $17k discount on a similiar '06.
I urge all on this board to refrain from personal attacks. I enjoy this board for the thoughtful discussion about cars. Let's not fight about taste, design preference, style, or other personal preferences. We're all car guys here, not political pundits.
#14494 of 24723 Re: low margin lexus, contentment and acid reflux [ljflx]
Apr 04, 2006 (8:46 pm)
Rode the big satellite radio waves, but wondering about the future, since they both severely overspent in their lust for new subscribers. Watcha think?
Why Microsoft now? The new upcoming OS is delayed.
#14495 of 24723 Re: mercedes, lexus prices and resale value [rayng]
Apr 04, 2006 (8:50 pm)
I urge all on this board to refrain from personal attacks.
I must have missed out on that latest battle, but I sure do agree with you that it's better when everyone is level headed. Definately.
#14496 of 24723 Re: Bangle may be good, but also a little over the top [hpowders]
Apr 04, 2006 (8:53 pm)
Just wish they would have left the tail lights alone.
You prefer some of the pre-Bangle looks of the Bimmers?
#14497 of 24723 raising and lowering the MSRP
Apr 04, 2006 (9:02 pm)
I think we all see the pros and cons of raising and lowering the MSRP. Additionally, it seems that there are cycles. You know, what goes up must come down, and I think that there is some truth to that as far as the MSRP goes. At some point, it really can get too lofty and the next smart move is to reverse direction. Sometimes a model change can be the best timing excuse for a larger than typical directional shift in the MSRP.
The market will often supply enough feedback to the manufacturers to know what the market will bear. It just makes good sense to adjust accordingly, when appropriate, which ever direction that might need to be.
I imagine the preferred direction is up, but that is not always the smartest thing to do, as we all know.
#14498 of 24723 Re: low margin lexus, contentment and acid reflux [tagman]
Apr 04, 2006 (9:14 pm)
Minor delay on Vista shouldn't effect anything. But they have all that product rollout coming, are growing in the internet space and Xbox is taking off. Plus I like what they are doing in the media space and they are seriously undervalued right now given their incredible earnings. With MSFT deduct the huge cash hoard on the balance sheet from their market cap and then divide it by earnings to get the real PE. I always do that and it's paid off well for me. I calc PE by market cap - cash or plus debt divided by earnings. Remember MSFT has been expensing stock options and also their cash flow always (and I check this at every quarter) exceeds their earnings. Anyway we'll see. I have been in and out of this stock for years but I still have some ancient low priced shares and I think it's time to go long on any new purchases.
Sat Radio - I've got out of it and Google in December.