Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#144 of 24723 German Delivery of 740i
Mar 21, 2000 (6:42 pm)
In response to the question in 151, I did the German delivery of a 540i in 1998. It is a very nice program, and saves a bit of money. Down side is you must pay cash 1 month prior to delivery, travel to Germany (I go anyway for business) and then wait 5-8 weeks for the car to reach the US. Upside is you have the car to tour Europe, a price better than any I found here and you pick precisely the options, color, etc. I highly recommend the program. BMW gives you temproty plates and insurance for one month which can be extended if you wish. They detail the car for you when it is shipped to the USA. There is no charge for the shipment. My wife absolutely loved it as she joined me for a week in Bavaria, Austria, Switzerland, etc.
Mar 21, 2000 (10:37 pm)
What a nut job! I give that post 2 hours before it is deleted. Maybe less...
Mar 22, 2000 (1:05 am)
It was less.
#147 of 24723 Anyone know if the A8L
Mar 23, 2000 (2:00 am)
Will be sold along side of the A8, like BMW sold the 740i and 740iL What other features will the A8L other than room?
Mar 29, 2000 (6:08 am)
Want to know what tops your "blessed" Mercedes S600 which you seem to think G-d created on the seventh day before he rested? Try a Bentley Continental T Mulliner. *Grins*
If I had a few hundred thousand dollars to throw around, I'd prefer a more individually tailored and styled Bentley or Rolls-Royce over a bland, mass-produced and common-as-apples "Kraut Wagon" like a Mercedes-Benz. And yes, I'm well aware of the fact that Bayerische Motoren Werke and Volkswagen purchased RR & Bentley from Vickers. IMHO, Crewe still builds cars that will always be leaps and bounds above anything the three-pointed star can churn out in terms of sheer majesty, elegance, and sophistication.
Moderator: Before you delete this post for the "Kraut" remark, take into account the fact that I'm of Austrian descent. Thanks. ;o)
#149 of 24723 justiceisdead
Mar 29, 2000 (9:15 am)
A Bentley does top a Benz in image and "majesty" as you call it. However an S600 is at least 15 years ahead in technology over any 2-door Bentley made today, including their specialized Mulliner editions. Mulliner is to Bentley, like AMG is to Mercedes. I like Bentley's too, very much. However in technical sophistication they are decades behind. A 300K car that doesn't even have Xenon headlights, or side airbags! Of course after you drive a Bentley or even sit in one you wouldn't care, but technically they were outdated 15 years ago. If I had a couple hundred grand I would have a Bentley in addition to a few "Kraut Wagens" too. Don't look now but like you said, those "Kraut" companies own the lady, her dress, and that flying "B". Image they are tops, but "sophistication" is mastered by Mercedes-Benz and the like.
#150 of 24723 Okay, this will be my last post.
Mar 29, 2000 (9:40 pm)
Out of respect for the topic of this forum and for its contributors, this will be my last post here.
I understand and respect the fact that we both have differing opinions, Merc. I don't expect to "convert" you, just as you will never "convert" me. *Smirks* I'm sure we each have rational reasons for thinking the way we do.
I sincerely think that Rolls-Royce and Bentley top Mercedes-Benz by a substantial margin. The difference is in the craftsmanship, the quality of the materials, and the build quality. Rolls-Royces and Bentleys are quite literally designer items. You don't go to a dealership and just buy one like you do in the case of a Mercedes-Benz; you commission them.
The "technological" argument is rather moot, IMHO. Arguing that Crewe cars are "decades behind" in technological sophistication is like arguing about the obsolescence of the front-engine, rear wheel drive layout or the internal combustion engine (two things which every Mercedes-Benz has). Just because something may be "outdated" in accordance with modern standards does not necessarily mean it's inferior. Quite the contrary, the "obsolete technology" in Crewe cars is time-proven and just as good if not better than the "superior technology" in a Mercedes-Benz.
You also seem to forget that the recent investments by Bayerische Motoren Werke and Volkswagen have contributed greatly to the "modernization" of Rolls-Royce and Bentley motorcars. I'm sorry, Merc, but I'm afraid we'll have to differ on this. In my honest opinion, I think the Mercedes-Benz "superior technology" you speak of consists of nothing more than gimmicks and "toys" (like the chromed wands which extend from the rear of the car) to make an affluent buyer feel "special." They are trivial "extras" which experienced drivers will never need or have a use for in their lifetime. Rolls-Royces and Bentleys have individuality, and endear to their owners in ways German cars couldn't match on their best day.
Also, making a car more "idiot proof" only increases the risks of expensive repairs when that "superior technology" fails, and in a way fosters irresponsible driving. Simply put, if we absolutely need technical innovations like Parktronic and that cruise control that slows the car down when you approach another car too quickly, we really shouldn't be on the road.
So if I had $300,000 lying around, I'd go with a more individual Rolls-Royce Corniche convertible over a bland and ho-hum (in my opinion) SL600, or a Park Ward over an S600. To me, Mercedes-Benzes, BMWs, and Lexii are as common as apples and, as the Edmund's staff puts it, clutter the highways like salmon travelling upstream to spawn.
Anyhow, I think I've said enough. Once again, this will be my last post, and let's not allow our differences in opinion make us mortal enemies. ;o)
#151 of 24723 justiceisdead
Mar 30, 2000 (9:35 am)
You must have misunderstood my last post. I agree with you totally about Bentley/Rolls craftsmanship and status. They are the top status symbol in luxury cars, if not cars period. However like I said before, I can't see why a 300K should be "forgiven" for not having the same features as a Jetta or Corolla. Furthermore most people don't have 300K "lying around" anyway, nor do I. I do have about 40-45K to spend on my next car though, so a "ho-hum" Mercedes or BMW will have to do. I deal in reality, not what if's. That said, you're correct, a Bentley is a stunning car. There is not other car more lavishly built than a Rolls or Bentley.
You also said that some of Mercedes' technical innovations are just "gimmicks". Hmmm, an electronic stability program for a rear-drive hi-performance car is indeed a revelation in bad conditions, something that I don't recall any Rolls and Bentley models having. Side airbags and Xenon lights gimmicks, yeah right. Xenon lights have changed many peoples perspective of night driving, because they are now comfortable doing so because of the level of vision these type of lights provide. Parktronic, something that Bentley does have, so if it's a so-called "gimmick" then Bentley is guilty too. Any big car owner will tell you that any parking assistance system is helpful, but not a must-have. That is the point of a luxury car...convenience. About VW and BMW sharing Rolls and Bentley. If those British brands were so good, they would not have needed a savior from.....Germany. Their cars would be 25 years behind without their help. My point is that while Bentley and Rolls are fabulous cars, they aren't the all around best. The best in my opinion are from Germany, ho hum and all.
However, I were filthy rich I would have several Bentleys too. I like them both, but Mercedes is just my #1. Lastly, don't group Mercedes and BMW with even more pedestrian brands like Lexus.
#152 of 24723 Correction
Mar 30, 2000 (11:42 am)
For 2000 Rolls and Bentley sedans do have an electronic stability program.
Mar 30, 2000 (2:10 pm)
Rolls Royce built quality is limited to interior materials and craftsmanship.
You would not have a romantic idea of Rolls Royce quality if:
1. the transmission was made by GM
2. the radio was made by GM Delco
3. the car had oversteer like an American car from
4. the windows went down and refused to go back up
5. the dash lights went out and refused to come
For 2000 Rolls and Bentley sedans have an electronic stability program? They're going to need it.