Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#14275 of 24723 Re: SV [ljflx]
Mar 17, 2006 (11:21 am)
I think Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. The person who spoke of the Golden Age is the Head Mechanic at my Lexus dealer. Other mechanics have made the same comment.
You can argue that there is nicer leather and what not in the 1995+ models and I'll have to agree with you.
Mind you the 1995 was very similar to the 1994 mechanically. It had the same 4 spd Automatic and 1uz-FE engine in it. It was just a 10 HP increase. The interior was completly different however. The exterior was a clear derivative of the original.
Next time ask your Service Writer what he/she thinks about the quality of the early ones compared to now. Did you ever see any recalls for fuel pumps and transmissions on the old one? Did you see any problems with the display cluster like they had in the 1998 model? How about the jerky accelerator? They had a single recall for the Cruise Control in the 1990 model.
The question here is absolute quality. Look at the side mirrors for example. They are much thicker on the old car. Feel the dimmer on your new car. Then go feel the dimmer on a 1990 LS. Then feel the door handle. The 1990-94 had a much thicker handle. Check the grille next, and then the window switches. Everything is thicker plastic or chrome. You'll notice the difference, but I appreciate it is hard to realize this unless both cars are sitting next to each other. My 1992 sits next to the 2005 so it's easy for me to make the comparison.
I will be the first one to say that my experience is NOT the norm. Maybe it is just the MA dealers. Of course. I've never been out of state for Lexus service. In dispute resolution with Lexus HQ I've found that they always offer the same excuses and apologies. It takes legal action to force action on their part.
Like I said, Lexus still makes a great car. This is an undisputable fact. They are technically advanced as they come, and they're starting to establish themselves as an innovator. I see only good things happening to them in the next few years.
As a long time owner I've really been let down by their customer service. I would have bought the LS460 without hesitation had I not had such a bitter experience with Lexus HQ and Dealership over the maintenance of my 92 LS. In fact, the goodwill of the 1992 experience kept me a Lexus buyer, even though I liked the S Class more.
By Probability it is unlikely the S430 will be as reliable as the LS cars. It is also true that it will not hold value as well nor will it have Bluetooth, Backup Camera, and Parking Radar. I've always maintained that Lexus appeals to the objective buyer.
What does the S430 offer then? Many Safety features standard, a timeless graceful design, Airmatic (Hope that doesn't cause more problems than it solves), 4 Matic (Big one for me), and enough toys to keep me occupied. Of course I didn't have to pay for it, so that's a plus! In addition maintenance is paid for over 3 yrs.
I fully expect this car to be more problematic. That isn't the issue. The MB dealer really treated me like royalty. That was the clincher.
This doesn't mean I'll cease being a Lexus fan. The 92 LS has created enough goodwill that I'll always defend them!
However, I won't be so quick to slam Mercedes unless this S430 falls apart of breaks down somewhere!
#14276 of 24723 Re: All brands have bad dealers [ljflx]
Mar 17, 2006 (11:26 am)
I think I just got the same S-Class advertisement you got a few days ago. A Black velvety box with 4 cards, 3 exterior shots and 1 interior shot. Nice, but I would have liked more info.
#14277 of 24723 Re: All brands have bad dealers [merc1]
Mar 17, 2006 (1:05 pm)
Yep. That's it. Mine included a test drive invitation and a special number to call. I think it was classy and the pure side view of the car looked great.
On Idol - I'm still amazed at Chicken Little's survival. Someone told me that there's a "vote for the worst" group that is probably keeping him alive each week. It's a shame that he can be so awful each week while the others can't make a mistake or they're in danger of being gone. Some of the better people, who can actually win this thing are worried each week with this crazy voting when Seacrest puts them on the bubble with his safe or danger calls. I see this coming down to Chris, Mandisa and Katherine. Mandisa's weight could be a problem but she does have a beautiful face and great charisma going for her. I think those three plus Lisa and Paris will all have future careers. Taylor's the oddball as he is a great entertainer and should get into the business in some way. I just don't see a future where we are listing to his songs on the radio. Lisa and Ace almost being eliminated was sickening and while I was not a real big fan of Melissa, I still think it's a shame she's gone as she is light years beyond Kevin Covais in talent. I have a feeling Randy is going to come down hard on him the next go round as I'm sure Simon is speaking to him and Paula behind the scenes about this contestant.
Mar 17, 2006 (2:39 pm)
It has always been my contention that the dealer is the pivotal player for service...As we have had many lexus cars over the lastfourteen years or so, I personally can say the first was the best and had the least trouble for its time,..Four years later there was good improvement, but not quite the build quality and a little more problems, then the next was a huge improvement in the driving department, but again the build quality was a bit worse....All those years the dealer has been the best I have ever experienced...Right now I have an Audi as a change is nice occasionally....The Audi for me is a wonderful change and has been trouble free so far..I further think the dealer is going to be a good dealer---I just haven`t had occasion to test them out yet, but I know they won`t be better than lexus.. I bet the Lexus will not be priced much higher than the present model LS, and will be a huge sucess....My Audi cost a bit more than eighty thousand and the Lexus is a lot less than that...Tony
#14279 of 24723 Re: Lexus dealer [anthonyp]
Mar 17, 2006 (3:13 pm)
I bet the Lexus will not be priced much higher than the present model LS, and will be a huge sucess
#14280 of 24723 Re: Lexus dealer [tagman]
Mar 17, 2006 (5:18 pm)
I'm hearing the prices will range from $63-$82K, stripped SWB car at $63K and loaded LWB car at $82K. Nothing on hybrid but IMO it will be $95-100K.
#14281 of 24723 Re: Lexus dealer [ljflx]
Mar 17, 2006 (6:36 pm)
Obviously the LWB and hybrid will bring the prices into new territory. It'll be interesting to see how it all goes, although I have little doubt it will all go well . . . very well.
#14282 of 24723 If Lexus' pricing model holds,
Mar 17, 2006 (6:39 pm)
The Hybrid will come in around $90k, with a loaded LS460 reaching the low $80's.
#14283 of 24723 Re: SV [sv7887]
Mar 17, 2006 (7:00 pm)
I whole-heartedly agree with your testimony. I had numerous problems with my '98 LS that I promised myself that I wouldn't ever buy another again, no matter how reliable they were supposed to be. In a short 32,000 miles, the steering rack and both front hubs had to replaced($6k job, albeit all under warranty). Then the cluster failed twice, and then the electrical system went hay-wire. It reminded my of my 1990 Jaguar XJ VDP. Like yourself, I was completely let down on this car compared to my '92, which believe it or not, only had a bad battery and two flat tires in 76,000 miles.
I eventually unloaded the LS for a '01 S500 which was a model of both quality and reliability, despite the reputation.
It has to be said that not everyone is on the "Lexus is for everyone" band-wagon. May it be style or just utter disgust, it's not for everybody. If Sam had a terrible experience with the cars after spending a huge bundle over time with the company, then I would very upset with them also, which was the case with myself.
The Lexus is a time-honored vehicle as it should be in it's own right, but it is "NOT" the perfect vehicle most Lexus customers would lead a person to believe. Up until the upcoming LS460, the post '01's looked more like a puffed-n-buffed Buick Park Avenue than luxury distinctive,IMO.
I now drive one of the less talked about vehicles on the HELM, the A8. And very happy with my purchase and wouldn't get rid of it for any car that's out now(maybe the upcoming S8). And maybe that's a good thing.
Mar 17, 2006 (7:55 pm)
I agree that a "stripped" S500 will hold its value more than a loaded S430. Lets agree to disagree on my belief that everything else being equal, a loaded (special edition, whatever) S500 will hold its value less than a stripped S500. (I think cars are like neighborhoods: the best house in the neighborhood won't do as well in terms of value as the average house; everything reverts back to the mean.)
Incidentally, the air suspension is so problemattic on Range Rovers that companies offer kits so you can remove the darn air bags and go back to shocks and springs. You can do the whole retrofit for about 2K less than the cost of fixing the air bags. Do used S Classes have major trouble (i.e., expensive repairs) with their air suspension?