Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#14143 of 24723 Re: Mercedes sales are getting better and better [syswei]
Mar 03, 2006 (10:11 am)
I wonder how that compares to the first month sales of the outgoing S, when it was brand new?
The 2000 S-Class was released (the 1st year of the previous body) in March 1999. The total MB units sold for that month was about 16k+, which is pretty close to the month of the 2007 S-Class release (Feb 2006) of 17k+. The 2000 S-Class sold 2403 units in its first month, while the 2007 sold 3360.
Here's the link for reference: Autoworld.com
#14144 of 24723 Re: Mercedes sales are getting better and better [bdr127]
Mar 03, 2006 (10:18 pm)
Remember you are looking at sales/shipments to dealers not sales to Consumers. Same thing with Lexus on the nearly 4K IS sales and the huge November figures they had. The latter was just sales to dealers in anticipation of the December to Remember sale. It's not yet actually purchased by consumers though I'm sure some of these shipments stated are spoken for. How great the next two months of sales/shipments to dealers turn out to be is the real telling point of whether the February unit sales are really moving to consumers or are getting stockpiled into dealer inventory. I think many people read mfr. sales stats as thinking those are units sold to the public when in fact you are looking at wholessale stats.
#14145 of 24723 I'm one of them!
Mar 05, 2006 (2:41 pm)
Can you substantiate that post, LJ?
Why would anyone publicly post wholesale shipments, and release that to the news as sales/registrations? That's beyond deceptive, and shouldn't be hard to be caught on.
Could be quite a public relations nightmare, plus impunes the credibility of the reporting medias involved.
#14146 of 24723 Re: I'm one of them! [drfill]
Mar 05, 2006 (5:30 pm)
Well - just think about it. Sales are reported on the first business day of the new month for the prior month. There is no way that each individual sale to a consumer - from every dealer in the US - is tabulated by an auto manufacturer, let alone verified for public release in real time or in such fast turn around time. Since this is public data that affects stock price there is no way anyone is releasing that type of data in this age of SEC scrutiny unless it comes from there own hardcore systems that they are 100% in control of. Just the infrastructure needed to support a real-time sales system at the dealer network would be a big undertaking. It would also be costly and error prone and hardly be trusted for reporting public data that is closely watched. It would only happen if it was reported on by a third party auditor and such a party would never release it that quickly. Clearly the figures are entirely based on each manufacturers production/delivery system of cars shipped from their factories to dealers and fleets. That is 100% verifiable by the mfr. Lastly was the S-class even available for sale on February 1st? Wouldn't Lexus December sales be a lot bigger than November if we were really seeing consumer sales given the big December promotion and all the holidays taken by businesses after December 15-20th. Pretty clear to me that you can always bank on Novemmber being a huge sales month for Lexus in advance of the December pronotion. BTW - I'm sick of the jingle but what a great marketing move that was. With all the days off people have after December 15th it's like Saturdays in Lexus dealerships almost every day in the latter half of December.
The closest thing we have to real time public sales is the RL Polk registration data which is obtained from MV data of the states. I'm not sure they even get it from every state. We all know full well that government systems never report that quickly and most permanent registrations are delayed 1-2 weeks anyway. So at best that consumer data for February won't even be known until later in March. The Polk data is bought heavily by the auto mfs as that data enables them to make factory planning and production decisions as it shows what dealer inventory is moving and in what zipcodes.
#14147 of 24723 Re: I'm one of them! [drfill]
Mar 06, 2006 (5:41 am)
I'm confused, are you the same "callmedrfill" from before?
#14148 of 24723 Re: I'm one of them! [ljflx]
Mar 06, 2006 (2:15 pm)
I like your logic . . . I like it a lot . . . but I would still like to know definatively the process for obtaining and reporting the sales data.
#14149 of 24723 Re: I'm one of them! [tagman]
Mar 06, 2006 (2:47 pm)
Actually he is right. There is no way every carmaker can get these numbers from all their dealers, process them and have them ready for their press releases the day after the month ends. This is the same reason why Ford is protesting that Chevy was the bestselling brand last year. Chevy made their claims based on cars they delivered to their dealers, but Ford went back and requested the actual number of cars registered and found out that they "sold" more cars to people than Chevy delivered to their dealers, or something like that.
In an article about Chrylser the clarification on the sales reporting process is given. A quote:
"Chrysler and other automakers record sales and revenues after vehicles are shipped to dealers rather than when they are purchased by a customer."
#14150 of 24723 Re: I'm one of them! [merc1]
Mar 06, 2006 (6:10 pm)
ljflx is also right about watching the next months to see whether or not the vehicles have actually been selling or whether or not the vehicles are merely building up in dealer's inventories.
BTW, the link was informative. Thanks.
#14151 of 24723 Re: I'm one of them! [tagman]
Mar 06, 2006 (7:47 pm)
Well if various mesg boards (besides edmunds) are any indication, the S-Class isn't sitting in many dealers's inventories anywhere. The are quite a vew posts on other boards about people getting angry about having to wait for the new S. The dealers around here certainly don't have any, not sure about the larger New York area, Florida and Cali markets.
#14152 of 24723 Re: I'm one of them! [tagman]
Mar 06, 2006 (8:03 pm)
Tagman - I'd expect the S to do well in the next 6 months. It's pretty standalone out there as the newest and greatest thing. The big issue vs the last re-design is that it has a lot less lead-time (7.5 months vs 18 months) on the LS which is aiming higher and higher into its range. Does the LS crimp its sales or do the two go off and hide from everyone else like two horses running away from the field. I'd expect the latter.