Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#13852 of 24726 Re: Merc [callmedrfill]
Feb 04, 2006 (12:20 am)
No kidding. If throwing in additional 50hp at the tail end of vehicle development cycle were that easy, why not throwing 5 more and trounce the S550?
The whole point about Lexus "copying" MB on horsepower is ludicrous. If not for competition, none of the big three premium brands would be updating their products as frequently as they do. Of course all of them try to anticipate what the competitions offer and try to come up with products that are competitive.
BTW, the leaders of a horse power race is usually the under-dog of the market segment. For example, BMW has had the leadership of sports sedan for two decades now; every new comer tried to out-power BMW in order to garner some market attention. For what it's worth, IMHO, in terms of product/engine development cycle and how long it takes to come up with a new engine, Infiniti Q45 was probably what started the current horse power war back when it was introduced with 340hp in early 2001 as a 2002 model when every other premium luxury cruiser had a flagship V8 in the 275-300 range. Even the V12's only made low to mid-300's back then in 2001-2002.
#13853 of 24726 Re: Merc [brightness04]
Feb 04, 2006 (1:47 am)
Unfortunately, for all the power that the VK45 had, really sloppy gearing ruined it. The LS430 was faster. It's hard to believe that the Q and the first M were introduced not that long ago. The Q seems like its 10 years old. Infiniti needs to get rid of it in a hurry. I will never understand why they actually spent money to refresh a car for '05 that nobody buys.
#13854 of 24726 Page width fixed
Feb 04, 2006 (5:51 am)
It's safe to back up and read whatever you might have missed.
#13855 of 24726 Lexus HLS
Feb 04, 2006 (7:58 am)
Supposedly a model that will have a powerful V8 hybrid and a V12 that will be positioned over the LS and likely a 110K+ starting point. Some posts reference it on the 2007 LS board. I agree with those here that say a powerful V8 + hybrid renders a V12 useless. Is there room for a V12 hybrid in a $150K+ car? Maybe that is where they will go. As far as I'm concerned a car at that level is purely a halo strategy.
#13856 of 24726 Re: Merc [callmedrfill]
Feb 04, 2006 (8:19 am)
"You know how hard it is to build a V8, especially to Lexus/Mercedes/BMW levels of smoothness and durability."
I know you were addressing somebody else, and I'm not trying to be rude to you...
I just get a bit offensive of the "Lexus/Mercedes/BMW" claim. Where's Audi? I have an S4 Cabriolet- wonderful V8 engine. It's the most beautiful car I have ever owned, and it really gets me there! Audi V8s are smooth too.
And, Lexus isn't relevant to German cars. The "German Big Three" are BMW, Mercedes-Benz and Audi. Case closed.
#13858 of 24726 from Car Design News
Feb 04, 2006 (9:03 am)
(sounds like designman's kind of site)
...the LS460 features a rounded but prominent body side crease, the new Lexus 'slingshot' DLO which kicks up into the C-pillar and a series of rather odd, curvy shut lines around the rear fender, bumper, light and trunk. Other notable elements are exhausts integrated into the rear lower valance, subtle chrome appliqué at the base of the doors and a faultless but rather conservative interior.
The LS460 is a more distinctive design than its predecessor, although relative to the imposing BMW 7 Series, unusually dynamic S-Class and classically svelte Jaguar XJ and Maserati Quattroporte it is very much in the old school luxury car idiom. But given its new found sophistication, the brand's ever elevating position and its competitors arguably nonsensical abandonment of the luxury car middle ground, this might just be one of the best judged designs of the year.
Feb 04, 2006 (9:25 am)
Agreed. Like I said, Infiniti is the under-dog in the HELM market segment. It's relatively easy to introduce a new-fangled engine that is a cut above all others and lead off a horse power race, but the rest of the system integration is a lot harder. Q45 actually did pretty well in the first model year . . . then its sales fell off a cliff.
Feb 04, 2006 (9:31 am)
I can't find the word "German" in the forum title. As far as luxury brand sales volume ("big three") is concerned, Audi trails far behind Lexus, BMW and Mercedes (in that order) in the US, with Cadillac, Acura and Infiniti in between and all ahead of Audi. Out of all these brands, Acura is the only one without a smooth running V8 or any V8 produciton engine.
#13861 of 24726 Re: from Car Design News [syswei]
Feb 04, 2006 (9:32 am)
Interesting site. They seem to think the new Camry and LS460 have some common styling elements:
Slightly reminiscent of the new Lexus LS460 also debuting at Detroit, particularly its rear three quarter view.....
Other than that they seem to really like the new LS design.