Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#13847 of 24726 Re: Merc [merc1] Lexus tailgating mercedes [samstayton]
Feb 03, 2006 (11:04 pm)
I agree of course that Lexus lacks a certain amount of prestige because they lace a V12, however I do think the LS600h (if it truly lives up to all the hype given around here) will partly make up for this. Now I'm reading that it won't be a $100K car, but will be 90K instead? So much speculation here and on the 2007 LS board. I'll just wait until they show the car in New York in April. Of course for some a V12 is a V12 and there is no substitue. That crowd I don't think would buy a Lexus anyway, V12 or not.
At this point we do not know whether toyota and lexus are even capable of making a world beating V12 which can match S65 AMG's 600 HP.
Well we know they could if they wanted too, but it wouldn't fit in the with green performance image Lexus is trying create with their hybrids and we know Toyota isn't going to do a V12 with 600 and hybrid with 500hp. One would render the other pointless - depending on the type of buyer.
#13848 of 24726 Re: Merc [callmedrfill]
Feb 03, 2006 (11:08 pm)
Well we know they didn't just throw 50hp on at the end, but they sure made sure they matched the S550. I'm sure anyone in the industry could have found out what the hp rating was long before the launch in Sept 2005. Not hard to do. You were the one that said they'd never go over 350hp!
#13849 of 24726 Re: Merc [merc1] Lexus tailgating mercedes [samstayton]
Feb 03, 2006 (11:58 pm)
V12 has never been a "true technological benchmark" for any automaker. Companies typically got their production V12 before their capability to make a production V8 by simply putting two 6-cyl engines together; e.g. BMW of the late 80's. V12's are usually sold in such small numbers that it makes no sense to start new engine technology R&D on production V12 engines; they just get whatever is available on the company's I6 or V6, in a double-shot.
Feb 04, 2006 (12:01 am)
A 23" does just fine. It's the horizontal pixel count that matters, most 45" monitors actually are video monitors that have relatively low pixel count.
#13851 of 24726 Re: Help! [brightness04]
Feb 04, 2006 (12:19 am)
Above the monsterous 2560x1600 Dell 30" 3007FP, nothing is higher than 1920x1080 (though granted thats still very high compared to a few years ago).
#13852 of 24726 Re: Merc [callmedrfill]
Feb 04, 2006 (12:20 am)
No kidding. If throwing in additional 50hp at the tail end of vehicle development cycle were that easy, why not throwing 5 more and trounce the S550?
The whole point about Lexus "copying" MB on horsepower is ludicrous. If not for competition, none of the big three premium brands would be updating their products as frequently as they do. Of course all of them try to anticipate what the competitions offer and try to come up with products that are competitive.
BTW, the leaders of a horse power race is usually the under-dog of the market segment. For example, BMW has had the leadership of sports sedan for two decades now; every new comer tried to out-power BMW in order to garner some market attention. For what it's worth, IMHO, in terms of product/engine development cycle and how long it takes to come up with a new engine, Infiniti Q45 was probably what started the current horse power war back when it was introduced with 340hp in early 2001 as a 2002 model when every other premium luxury cruiser had a flagship V8 in the 275-300 range. Even the V12's only made low to mid-300's back then in 2001-2002.
#13853 of 24726 Re: Merc [brightness04]
Feb 04, 2006 (1:47 am)
Unfortunately, for all the power that the VK45 had, really sloppy gearing ruined it. The LS430 was faster. It's hard to believe that the Q and the first M were introduced not that long ago. The Q seems like its 10 years old. Infiniti needs to get rid of it in a hurry. I will never understand why they actually spent money to refresh a car for '05 that nobody buys.
#13854 of 24726 Page width fixed
Feb 04, 2006 (5:51 am)
It's safe to back up and read whatever you might have missed.
#13855 of 24726 Lexus HLS
Feb 04, 2006 (7:58 am)
Supposedly a model that will have a powerful V8 hybrid and a V12 that will be positioned over the LS and likely a 110K+ starting point. Some posts reference it on the 2007 LS board. I agree with those here that say a powerful V8 + hybrid renders a V12 useless. Is there room for a V12 hybrid in a $150K+ car? Maybe that is where they will go. As far as I'm concerned a car at that level is purely a halo strategy.
#13856 of 24726 Re: Merc [callmedrfill]
Feb 04, 2006 (8:19 am)
"You know how hard it is to build a V8, especially to Lexus/Mercedes/BMW levels of smoothness and durability."
I know you were addressing somebody else, and I'm not trying to be rude to you...
I just get a bit offensive of the "Lexus/Mercedes/BMW" claim. Where's Audi? I have an S4 Cabriolet- wonderful V8 engine. It's the most beautiful car I have ever owned, and it really gets me there! Audi V8s are smooth too.
And, Lexus isn't relevant to German cars. The "German Big Three" are BMW, Mercedes-Benz and Audi. Case closed.