Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#13696 of 24723 BMW looks healthy
Jan 27, 2006 (7:48 pm)
German automaker BMW AG reported a 5.2 per cent rise in 2005 net sales to 46.66 billion euros ($57.28 billion US), exceeding analysts' expectations.
Analysts had been predicting overall sales of 46.3 billion euros ($56.84 billion), and BMW shares rose 2.3 per cent to close at 36.79 euros ($45.21) in Frankfurt trading. The Bavarian automaker said it sold a record 1,327,992 cars in 2005, up 9.9 per cent on the year.
Sales for the BMW brand were up 10 per cent on the year at 1,126,768 cars, helped by strong demand for the revamped version of the company's 3-series model.
Sales in BMW's core automotive division rose 7.8 per cent to about 45.86 billion euros ($56.3 billion), while sales in the financial services division rose 14.4 per cent to almost 9.41 billion euros ($11.55 billion). Sales in the motorcycle division rose to 1.22 billion euros ($1.49 billion).
The company reported spending 9.8 billion euros ($12 billion) on "reconciliations" but did not elaborate.
Looking ahead, CEO Helmut Panke said the company hoped to build on its successes in 2006.
"Our aim is to increase sales volume yet again and once again set a new record," he said.
Analysts expect more news on BMW's outlook for the current fiscal year on March 15, when the company releases its full-year 2005 earnings.
As indicated, a good portion of the news is attributed to sales of the 3 Series, but certainly not all, and it does paint an overall healthy picture at this point for the automaker. BTW, Porsche also reported good fiscal numbers with sales up 15% and net profits up 13% in the first half of their fiscal year. Always nice to see good news for these German automakers.
#13697 of 24723 Re: BMW looks healthy [tagman]
Jan 27, 2006 (8:01 pm)
Can you give us a source?
#13698 of 24723 Re: BMW looks healthy [pat]
Jan 27, 2006 (8:16 pm)
Can you give us a source?
Pat, I'd be happy to. This is data exactly as reported in the latest Autospies newsletter. Typically they re-quote the original source, when applicable, so I re-checked their website to see if there was an original source. They showed no additional information beyond their own posting of the BMW data, and they indicated the Porsche data to have been originally from the "Toronto Star".
#13699 of 24723 Re: BMW looks healthy [tagman]
Jan 27, 2006 (8:18 pm)
I mean a link to what you copied ... if it's Autospies, that's fine, it's just good to provide a link to where you read what you are quoting.
#13700 of 24723 Some BMW and Porsche sales data links
Jan 27, 2006 (11:28 pm)
These should be the links to the BMW and Porsche sales data I provided earlier:
#13701 of 24723 Lots of luxury hardware.........
Jan 28, 2006 (12:16 am)
In the March issue of C&D there are first drives and/or roadtests of the Audi S8, Maybach 57S, Audi Q7, Jaguar XK, and Cadillac XLR-V. Porsche wins one comparo loses another. The results for each seem to be the reverse of what I'd thought they'd be, then you look at the scoring. Lots of interesting reading.
#13702 of 24723 S 450 can compete against LS460
Jan 28, 2006 (12:41 am)
There's been the suggestion on a Lexus forum that there will be absolutely no comparison between the new upcoming Mercedes S 450 and the Lexus LS460. It was argued that only the S 550 can compare. I have disputed that argument and believe that a comparison between the S 450 and the LS460 will ultimately be made, and that it is only natural and inevitable. I think this discussion is also applicable to this forum.
#13703 of 24723 Lexus price advantage is strategic, deliberate & necessary
Jan 29, 2006 (11:53 am)
I posted this on the 2007 Lexus LS forum, but I am certain that it has relevancy here as well, so here it is:
barrys – Your concern about the suggestion that Lexus should actually RAISE its prices is reasonable and logical, IMO. I agree with you and DrFill that the Lexus price structure does not need encouragement to rise too quickly, for its own sake, but I do believe that the more extreme opinions expressed here will not influence Lexus's strategic marketing.
Remember, Toyota/Lexus is among the best in the world at this. Many of the Lexus fans on this forum have a major affection for the automaker, which is clear from some of the posts. This is quite natural for there to be more extreme views like this. The views expressed by many of the German car fans are just as powerful, and those views sometimes in a similar fashion are supportive of the price and/or value of the German cars.
Let me clarify that I believe that the high-end German car prices are often too lofty and have posted this opinion in the past. I have also posted that the Lexus price strategy of keeping the prices lower than the competition has been essential to their success, and is, in fact, an integral part of their marketing formula.
I have tremendous respect for companies with brilliant strategies, and I include Toyota/Lexus (Wal-Mart is another) among my most respected. They are not perfect, of course. And my respect for them should not be construed as an endorsement or to infer that I am biased in favor of their products . . . just a respect for their marketing brilliance.
The price advantage is essential to perceived value. Consider DrFill's opinion that the S450 cannot compare to the LS460. Well . . . buyers and critics alike WILL make the comparisons, and as they do so, many of them will draw the conclusion that DrFill draws, partly due to the price difference as it relates to how much car the buyer perceives to obtain for the $$$. Lexus will continue to stand out as a good value, because it has an historic reputation and foundation based upon reliable value, with good momentum in its wake, and it will be deliberately priced to further the cause. However, there are other factors that affect the sale of an automobile, and many people will choose other marques instead of the Lexus, of course. There are no actual "right or wrong" choices when purchasing an automobile . . . only a spectrum of preferences, criteria, and/or "need-fulfillment" . . . which buyers will perceive as "right" for themselves and/or others.
Will Lexus boost prices? Beyond factors such as monetary exchange rates and/or political global trade pressures, there have been views expressed that they will and that they should deliberately do so . . . and those suggestions of deliberate price increases and a shrinking price gap/advantage have raised your concern. However, aside from minor fluctuations and tweaking, I think it is clearly more likely that Lexus will stay on their successful path and maintain the integration of perceived price advantage as a key factor in their brilliant and successful marketing strategy. In essence, it is a key component to what defines Lexus, and Toyota/Lexus is not about to tamper with its core perceptual definition.
#13704 of 24723 Lexus in Japan
Jan 29, 2006 (1:38 pm)
(Also posted on Lexus GS450h forum)
Last week I was in Osaka. I had the hotel concierge locate a Lexus dealer for me. The closest was three subway stops away. Lexus was introduced in Japan last August. The building was new, of contemporary architecture three stories high. The interior was very elegant and refined. Reception and a showroom on first floor with some offices. The second foor had a lounge and more offices and an additional car display area. The third floor was devoted to service with quite a few car lifts. There is an elevator to transport cars from street level to the service floor. A very impressive facility. I was surprised to learn it was owned by Toyota. They've made a huge investment. The only cars currently sold are the IS250, IS350, GS350, GS450 and SC430. Contrary to a recent post, the LS430 is not available: it's still sold as a Celsior at Toyota dealers. The upcoming LS will be sold at the Lexus stores. The RX400h is also not sold there. The GS450h will arrive in March, the same time as for the USA. A GS430 on display had a beautiful very light blue pearl color (the Japanese designation is 074) not seen in the USA. I suspect we don't get the same color choices. The sales consultant I talked to spoke English. He had an appointment coming up and when I left he pointed to the S class Mercedes that had parked with the client emerging.
Added comments for this forum:
I stayed at the Hilton. Just a short distance away adjacent to the Ritz-Carlton hotel is a Cornes store. Cornes is a Japanese dealer in luxury cars with a store in Tokyo which also sells Bentley. The Osaka store is devoted to Ferrari and Maserati. They had a Ferrari 430 and 612 Scaglietti and a Maserati coupe and quattroporte on display. These are all elegant cars. I would have no interest in purchasing one. I am #1 at my Lexus dealer for the upcoming GS450h and would be interested in any upcoming LS hybrid.
#13705 of 24723 Re: Lexus in Japan [idele] correction
Jan 29, 2006 (7:28 pm)
should be GS430 not GS450