Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#13619 of 24723 Re: 2006 Detroit Autoshow Pics.....HELM (cont.) [merc1]
Jan 23, 2006 (10:51 am)
As you know, I don't go near as far back in this forum as some of you other posters, but I've probably posted enough by now for you to get a sense of some of my views and opinions, as I have gotten a sense of yours. Your respect and admiration for the Mercedes line particularly has been interesting to me right out of the gate. Would you mind elaborating a bit for me as to the origins of this? I'd appreciate it.
#13620 of 24723 Re: Lexus vs Merc [merc1]
Jan 23, 2006 (1:22 pm)
First of all, thank you for your excellent write-up on the auto show. The pictures were an unexpected plus! I'm excited to hear Mercedes is offering the S320 CDI. I only hope they can make it clean enough to pass MA emissions standards. It is a crime that these cars are not allowed to be sold when oil is in short supply!
I wonder if the S320 will be decontented to some degree like the E320 CDI. I would prefer a S Class without all these fancy electronics that will likely cause trouble over the long term. I'm almost certain a MB is as mechanically sound as any other car. The complexity of some of the new car's systems is what has me worried. I wouldn't mind an S Class with a standard suspension as opposed to an Airmatic one.
While I don't like the wheel flares, the new S Class has a great presence. It looks substantial and solid. I'm not the greatest fan of the center cluster, but I like the fact all the controls are flush with the surface.
Having seen the S in person, do you think it looks better or worse than in the pictures?
Thanks again for the reviews!
#13621 of 24723 Re: Lexus vs Merc [ljflx]
Jan 23, 2006 (4:02 pm)
What you meant is perfectly clear and relevant to everyone except merc1. And you are right on target.
Jan 23, 2006 (5:36 pm)
What you meant is perfectly clear to me.
The Lexus strategy will be to price the LS 460 below the S-Class.
Why should they change a formula that admittedly has worked so well?
You are absolutely correct. One doesn't have to own an LS to figure out what is so logical.
#13623 of 24723 Re: To Merc1 [hpowders]
Jan 23, 2006 (6:21 pm)
The LS430 ultra was priced just below an S430 and is a SWB only car. Now we have 3 trims, a hybrid, a host of things that the car never had and 5 more very successful years and growth in status since the 2001 pricing guidelines were set. One needs to be a Lexus buyer to understand this it seems.
#13624 of 24723 Re: 2006 Detroit Autoshow Pics.....HELM (cont.) [merc1]
Jan 23, 2006 (7:22 pm)
Merc1, thanks for the great photos.
I wonder though how relevant trade shows like this really are. They are hugely expensive, only a relatively small number of civilains (non-vendors, non industry types) actually attend (and many of them are just lookers), etc. The fact that a D-C exec drove a three wheeled motorcycle up some stairs last year may have caused a stir but I don't think sold a single car. I think that the manufacturers move more iron at the local or regional shows where dealer people are present.
#13625 of 24723 Re: To Merc1 [ljflx]
Jan 23, 2006 (7:50 pm)
One needs to be a Lexus buyer to understand this it seems.
All others are ???????? . Gimmee a break.
It's Steelers and Seahawks.
#13626 of 24723 Re: To Merc1 [hpowders]
Jan 23, 2006 (7:54 pm)
Thank you. You clearly don't have to be a buyer to understand the most basic of Lexus practices - undercutting the Germans in price. The SWB LS460 will cost less than the S450 and the LS460 will cost probably the same or a little bit more than the S450 in order to undercut the S550. The LS600h is the only wildcard. It will likely cost the same or more than S550 to undercut the S600. Or the might price the LS600h at the same level as the S550. You have to be a buyer to understand this or make a guess based on past Lexus practices? Yeah sure. The only thing in question is the actual dollar amounts and the "buyers" are just as in the dark about this as anyone else.
#13627 of 24723 Re: 2006 Detroit Autoshow Pics.....HELM (cont.) [tagman]
Jan 23, 2006 (8:03 pm)
Sure. I'm pretty embarrased to admit what my favorite luxury brand was up until Mercedes. For me it was the new for 1986 W124 E-Class. This car's engineering details - the single blade wiper, spring-suspended seats, different size rear-view mirrors etc. are what initially attracted me to the brand. Then I drove one and found out that they didn't drive anything like my favorite luxury brand at that time - the Mercedes drove world's better. That did it for me. The specific models that "did it" were the 1986 300E, 560SEL and 560SEC and then in 1988 the 300CE. Some of the best cars ever built by anyone and easily the best in their repsective segments at the time. I didn't really like the SL until the R129 or 1990. Thats the short of it.
#13628 of 24723 Re: To Merc1 [tagman]
Jan 23, 2006 (8:08 pm)
I was replying sracasm to sarcasm. Too much of an over-reaction here.