Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#13394 of 24726 Stats and Spins
Jan 16, 2006 (2:51 pm)
MB: 95-2000=99%, 2000-2005=20%
BMW: 95-2000=46%, 2000-2005=45%
Lexus: 95-2000=28%, 2000-2005=49%
MB sales/growth goes from 99% --> 20%
BMW sales/growth goes from 46% --> 45%
Lexus sales/growth goes from 28% --> 49%
OK, we got the stats.... Now comes the spin
German cars are doing fantastic... Take out the cars, and they are far out-growing Lexus... Jurgen was MB's problem, and now that he is out, its full steam ahead for MB sales.... higher prices led to decreased sales for the German brands.... Lower priced Lexus led to increased Lexus sales... and on and on ....
MB sales are primarily from C-class ($30 - 45K)
BMW sales are primarily from 3-series ($30 - $45K)
Lexus sales are primarily from RX/ES ($30 - $45K)
MB has 5 C-class; 4 E-class; 5 S-class; 3 CLK, 2 SL; 3 CL; 2 M; 2 R; 1 G; GL (?): 2005 sales = 224K
BMW has 5 3-series; 4 5-series; 3 7-series; 2 X5; 1 X3; Z3/Z4; 1 6-series, 1 M3; 1 M5: 2005 sales = 266K
Lexus has 2 IS; 2GS; 2 RX; 1 ES, 1 SC, 1 GX, 1 LX, 1 LS: 2005 sales = 302K
Which car company is truly doing the best darn job of all 3 ? Seems kinda obvious, isn't it ?
#13395 of 24726 Re: Toyota/Lexus [grandaddy]
Jan 16, 2006 (2:55 pm)
Frankly, I consider it a good thing to call the Lexus a Toyota. What's the fuss about? Now if you tried to call it a BMW or Mercedes, then I would be outraged.
Now there's a man who knows what he wants, knows what it is and appreciates the benefits of what it is. Good answer.
As far as my car being a taxicab, it's the best darn cab I've ever been in!
Hey, I hear some German cop cars are Porsches. Are we supposed to feel bad about that too?
#13397 of 24726 Re: Stats and Spins [oac]
Jan 16, 2006 (3:06 pm)
I am willing to acknowledge that Lexus is doing the best on the spreadsheets and so is Toyota. Thus, I extend congratulations to those who have financial and emotional equity in them.
#13398 of 24726 Re: A Question? [hpowders]
Jan 16, 2006 (3:09 pm)
I hope the new LS improves upon its driveability factors...
The LS430 would never be mistaken for a 3- or 5-series sedan, cars you are most familiar with. What the LS430 is is a world-class luxury sedan far and above a 3/5-series, and as the links to the comparos show, better than many of its German counterparts, including the 7-series. Last I checked, the 7-series is an all-around better car than either a 3-/5-seris. If the only area that you find the LS430 weak IYO is driveability, turns out many more people don't consider this a weakness. Or put another way, many more people prefer the LS driveability to the 7-series driveability. That should tell you something, doesn't it ?
#13399 of 24726 Re: Stats and Spins [oac]
Jan 16, 2006 (3:22 pm)
OAC - Note that the big slowdown in MB sales growth came during a period where prices were reduced - starting with the $10K reduction on the resdesigned S-class in 2000. Now the S is being reduced another $1.5K. What's crystal clear is that MB prices need to fall a lot more. Too bad there wasn't a way to "Short" MB sticker prices.
#13400 of 24726 Re: A Question? [oac]
Jan 16, 2006 (3:30 pm)
OAC - I have to wonder if anyone who says the LS is a Toyota in disguise even knows how the LS was developed from scratch in the 1980's. Based on those inane comments I doubt they have a clue.
Jan 16, 2006 (3:33 pm)
wasn't it called a Lexus in Japan?
#13403 of 24726 Re: A Question? [ljflx]
Jan 16, 2006 (3:58 pm)
I have to wonder if anyone who says the LS is a Toyota in disguise even knows how the LS was developed from scratch in the 1980's. Based on those inane comments I doubt they have a clue.
Sounds like a good subject. Maybe I donít have a clue and perhaps you would be kind enough fill me in. Iíd be more than interested to hear. Anything to get away from the repetitious contentiousness in this place. I thought the discussion about long-term sales figures was interesting until it descended into the muck as usual.