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High End Luxury Cars

24723 messages,  Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum.

What is this discussion about? Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan



Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.

A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.

Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.

Messages Page 1337 of 2473

#13356 of 24723 Re: Sales..... [dewey] by syswei

Jan 16, 2006 (1:11 pm)

Replying to: dewey (Jan 16, 2006 1:04 pm)
You're spinning in a very German way.
 
What the 5 year numbers show is that BMW is indeed "holding its own" vs Lexus, in cars. But does 20% unit growth for MB, when BMW and Lexus grew 45% and 49% (in cars), mean MB is "holding its own"? Do you think the MB USA execs are patting themselves on the back for that?
 
long term stats of 10 years indicates the German marques were superior.
 
The 10 year stats indicate that the Germans outgrew Lexus IN CARS in that timespan. When combined with the 5 year numbers, the 10 year numbers show that the best "car growth" period for BMW and MB, relative to Lexus, was 1995-2000, NOT 2000-2005. In car terms, isn't 1995-2000 kind of "ancient history"?

#13357 of 24723 Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics by docnukem

Jan 16, 2006 (1:19 pm)

The scary thing for MB is the relative rate of growth.
 
Cars only:
 
MB: 95-2000=99%, 2000-2005=20%
BMW: 95-2000=46%, 2000-2005=45%
Lexus: 95-2000=28%, 2000-2005=49%
 
As you can see, you can make the numbers say whatever you want them to say.

#13358 of 24723 Re: Sales..... [syswei] by dewey

Jan 16, 2006 (1:20 pm)

Replying to: syswei (Jan 16, 2006 1:11 pm)
Oh really so 10 years is ancient history and 5 years is contemporary modern history. Thanks for providing that distinction.
 
This whole 5 years versus 10 years versus 3 years versus annaul versus quarterly versus monthly becomes kind of tedious. What you are doing is called data mining(selectively picking certain periods to support your arguments). The key thing is both MB and BMW are growing quite well whatever period you select!
 
Yes I said MB and that was not a typo error. MB is doing fantastic relative to the horrific destruction that was inflicted on the company by the former CEO Juergen Schremp. Your statistics reflects the "Juergen Schremp curse", but now with Zetsche in the helm it will be full throttle ahead for the Benz marque. I cant wait until 2008 when we can discsuss how well MB stats are(oops, in that case I will be doing data mining)

#13359 of 24723 Re: Sales..... [dewey] by syswei

Jan 16, 2006 (1:36 pm)

Replying to: dewey (Jan 16, 2006 1:20 pm)
If I had checked all 10 years of available data, and then picked the years that made Lexus look best, THAT would have been data mining.
 
But I didn't do it that way. I picked 1995 as a starting point because it was the earliest data I could find. (If anyone can find earler data, I'd be interested in seeing it.) And since it was 10 years ago, I picked 2000 as another logical point to look at (duh, because it was 5 years ago, halfway in time). In fact, when I found the 1995 data it was clear to me that using 2005 vs 1996 (instead of 1995) would have made Lexus look FAR better (9 year growth rate rather than 10 year), but I expressly didn't do that. Check the 2005 vs 1996 numbers yourself if you want to see what I mean.

#13360 of 24723 Re: Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics [docnukem] by syswei

Jan 16, 2006 (1:41 pm)

Replying to: docnukem (Jan 16, 2006 1:19 pm)
The scary thing for MB is the relative rate of growth.
 
Yes, another way to put it is that they seem to have a second derivative problem. Rate of growth seems to be decelerating.

#13361 of 24723 Growth rate and price by designman

Jan 16, 2006 (1:47 pm)

Can we find any significance between growth rate and price? Looks like growth rate is inversely proportional to price. Is the less expensive brand of cars here more inclined to grow?

#13362 of 24723 Re: Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics [syswei] by dewey

Jan 16, 2006 (1:48 pm)

Replying to: syswei (Jan 16, 2006 1:41 pm)
Yes, another way to put it is that they seem to have a second derivative problem. Rate of growth seems to be decelerating.
 
Growth is growth whether it is accelerating or decelerating. Are you saying what decelerates cannot accelerate in the future? Are you saying MB is doomed? Scary indeed, BOOO !

#13363 of 24723 Re: Sales..... [dewey] by garyh1

Jan 16, 2006 (1:56 pm)

Replying to: dewey (Jan 16, 2006 1:20 pm)
MB is doing fantastic relative to the horrific destruction that was inflicted on the company by the former CEO Juergen Schremp.
 
Dewey, what the heck kind of analysis is this? BMW is definitely doing very well, but to say MB is doing "quite well" - let alone "fantastic" - while it is losing ground to BMW and Lexus, is more than just selective "data mining".
 
And it's nice to know that all of Mercedes' problems can be traced to just one person.
 
I don't think even the great and mighty Merc1 can save you in light of this bizarre posting.

#13364 of 24723 Re: really [syswei] by bdr127

Jan 16, 2006 (2:00 pm)

Replying to: syswei (Jan 16, 2006 12:28 pm)
Some people like to count only cars, for reasons I just can't fathom...other than the reason that it makes German brands look better.
 
The reason why some Germancarfan asked for just the 5-year car numbers was because some Lexicon said that the reason BMW has increased its sales over the last 5 years was because they added SUVs.
 
When you're talking about total units sold, you can't say you must include SUVs, then turn around and discredit BMW's growth because they introduced SUVs. How hypocritical... You can't have your cake and eat it, too.

#13365 of 24723 Re: A Question? [brightness04] by dewey

Jan 16, 2006 (2:01 pm)

Replying to: brightness04 (Jan 16, 2006 10:56 am)
The reality is that the four Toyota sedan models (equivalent to IS, GS, LS and SC) outsold all MB and BMW models even when they were marketted as Toyota's!
 
When you say equivalent to Lexus IS did you include the Toyota Corolla? Where did you get your figures from? Bloomberg was quite concise in defining luxury as being over 3.5 million yen?
 
Also where did you see that ad with the 100K $ discount for the Maybach? I find it kind of ludicrous that Maybach would sell their cars so publicly at such a huge discounts like a baker who sells stale bagels at a discount. Talk about snob appeal!

Messages Page 1337 of 2473

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