Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#13291 of 24726 MB TREMENDOUS sales increase???
Jan 15, 2006 (2:00 pm)
Although in my IMHO I do not judge the car by its sales, but thats why manufacturers produce cars? to sell no to display?! anyhow, Lexus sales were shown against BMW sales, and here is the other part of the story, the MB sales (USA only), lets see how tremendous it is! yah BTW, here is an intersting point:
"Posting its best sales month with 31,192 units sold in December, MBUSA marked its strongest year-end finish with a 17.2 percent increase over last December's sales, the company's former best sales month on record"
this is for you to judge -->>> "The GS 300/430 achieved best-ever year-end combined sales of 33,457 units"
the GS alone beats the MB sales!! no need to say more
Total MBUSA sales,
2004 - 221,610
2003 - 218,717
2002 - 213,225
2001 - 206,638
2000 - 205,614
an increase of 1.00% hmm no 1.1%?? is that tremendous according to europhiles dictionary?
see the details below!! and keep saying MB sales increased tremendously!!
Model Dec '05 Dec '04Monthly % YTD 2005 YTD 2004 Yearly %
C-CLASS 9,806 8,870 10.6% 60,658 69,251 -12.4%
E-CLASS 6,334 7,576 -16.4% 50,383 58,954 -14.5%
S-CLASS 1,912 2,378 -19.6% 16,036 20,460 -21.6%
CL-CLASS 196 255 -23.1% 1,320 2,683 -50.8%
SL-CLASS 1,098 1,081 1.6% 10,080 12,885 -21.8%
CLK-CLASS 1,748 2,115 -17.4% 18,227 22,556 -19.2%
SLK-CLASS 976 1,701 -42.6% 11,278 7,360 53.2%
CLS-CLASS 1,230 n/a n/a 14,835 n/a n/a
R-CLASS 2,430 n/a n/a 4,959 n/a n/a
M-CLASS 5,340 2,458 117.2% 34,959 25,681 36.1%
G-CLASS 122 173 -29.5% 1,334 1,491 -10.5%
SLR 200 45 344.4%
Maybach 152 244 -37.7%
GRAND TOTAL 31,192 26,607 17.2% 224,421 221,610 1.3%
Once again i say, IMHO, i dont consider selling more is being the best although it is the main point of building cars, but if this figures are joined with top quality, top features and so, IMO, LEXUS IS THE BEST
#13292 of 24726 Re: MB, BMW?? what else you have? [oac]
Jan 15, 2006 (2:09 pm)
MB sales did increase, but well not tremodously!! they did a good job, thanx to lexus that taught them how to build luxury cars, i say, this belongs to lexus, otherwise MB cars were/will be the same until now if there was no lexus
2004 - 221,610
1993 - 61,899
something around 3.6 % !
will you compare it to lexus growth!! hmm NA!
Lexusization of the world
#13293 of 24726 Re: MB, BMW?? what else you have? [dewey]
Jan 15, 2006 (2:10 pm)
The Lexus LS beat the MB S in head to head competition. Please englighten me with the facts? It appears the world and myself are quite ignorant.
You asked, and I am pleased to inform: Better be ready with excuses....
1) 2004 Motor Trend Comparo (1st = A8L, 2nd = LS430)
2) 2004 Car and Driver $70K sedan comparo (1st = LS430)
Ranking (last place = S430)
6. Mercedes-Benz S430, Price as tested $87,975
5. Volkswagen Phaeton, Price as tested $69,800 est.
4. Audi A8L, Price as tested $74,690
3. BMW 745i, Price as tested $79,145
2. Jaguar XJ8, Price as tested $64,595
1. Lexus LS430, Price as tested $70,380
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?article_id=7248 (it may be archived now, but I have the actual print copy - Dec 2003 edition)
#13294 of 24726 Re: MB, BMW?? what else you have? [oac]
Jan 15, 2006 (2:21 pm)
Ok so two reviews confirm what you are saying! What does that prove?? There were magazine reviews from prior years that showed the Lexus IS300 and the Infiniti G35 as superior to the BMW 3 series. Despite these reviews the BMW 3 series remains the benchmark sport sedan.
Sport sedans are my focus. I have no expertise in luxury crusers as it appears you do not have expertise in i6 engines . So I am left with my last secret weapon that will be able to provide a whole slew of other reviews that shows the superiority of the MB S.
Let me alert my secret weapon: Calling Merc1 , calling Merc1, I do need your assistance!!!
#13295 of 24726 Where do Lexus sales come from?
Jan 15, 2006 (2:41 pm)
Without relying on lots of data, for the moment, let us consider that WITHOUT Lexus, what choices would the high end buyer have? Then go ahead and add Lexus to that mix, and there is going to be subtraction at SOME level from the other possible selections. That substraction, theoretically, should be equal to the number of Lexus's sold. Simple enough. Lexus has shaken things up. The flip side is that competition is usually a good thing for those that can endure the process. For those that can't endure it, it's bye-bye-baby.
#13296 of 24726 Re: MB, BMW?? what else you have? [oac]
Jan 15, 2006 (2:43 pm)
2004? Who cares about 2004? Who's looking backwards?
That's ancient history in this dynamic business.
My prediction may come as a shock so brace yourselves, loyal readers:
The BMW 760Li will win the next Car And Driver HELM Comparo, assuming the testers don't die of boredom after testing the Toyota/Lexus entry and are still around to test the other vehicles. Hope they test that one last, so we will at least be able to read the notes of the dynamic vehicles that blend luxury and performance left behind by the comotose testers.
Why the heck do you think BMW is advertising so much at that magazine?
At the very least, they should be able to come up with a win after spending all those Euros.
#13297 of 24726 Re: Where do Lexus sales come from? [tagman]
Jan 15, 2006 (2:46 pm)
And BMW can and will endure it.
Thanks to Japanese quality control, BMW has noticeably offered a much more reliable product.
We consumers all benefit from healthy competition.
#13298 of 24726 Re: MB, BMW?? what else you have? [hpowders]
Jan 15, 2006 (2:51 pm)
Dont think so, chief. The BMW is yesterday's news. The winner of the next full size comparo will be either a Lexus or a Mercedes. The BMW will be midpack with Audi, and Jag. No Phaetons this time.
#13299 of 24726 Re: Where do Lexus sales come from? [hpowders]
Jan 15, 2006 (3:03 pm)
hpowder you are beginning to be indoctrinated by those Lexicans. What has reliability got to do with performance/handling/ride/luxury/design/ exterior and interior fit and finish?
#13300 of 24726 Re: MB, BMW?? what else you have? [dewey]
Jan 15, 2006 (3:05 pm)
Sport sedans are my focus
Thanks for letting us know. Unfortunately, this is NOT a sport sedan forum, so what do we make of your past & present contributions ???
I have no expertise in luxury crusers as it appears you do not have expertise in i6 engines....
As to I6 engines, what makes u conclude as such ? Pls speak for yourself, don't rope me into the "I have no expertise" excuse....