Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
Jul 04, 2001 (7:53 pm)
The Cadillac Catera had a rear sunshade in 1997, and that is by no means a great car. So let's not make it out as if BMW stole ideas from it's competitors, and it's nothing but a copy cat. BMW had electric trunk closers on the previous 7 series models. But, to make it in this market, a company must offer what thier competitors offer. But there is a fine line between adding equipment packages and copying the entire car~ A.R.
Jul 04, 2001 (9:08 pm)
Why are we so wrapped up in the electric shades...
#1321 of 24723 Wrapped up in electric shades
Jul 05, 2001 (3:49 am)
I was just replying to comments about the new electric shades in the 745i. Others comments thought I was mentioning the rear window shade. I was talking about the electric SIDE window shades, which I believe is unique to this car. Also, I guess I wasn't clear on the electric trunk opener/closer. This feature actually opens the trunk ALL the way electrically and closes it ALL the way electrically. This works the same way as the option on the S and CL-Class.
Jul 05, 2001 (10:25 am)
That is a very cool feature, and useful. Most of those cars, at least I think, only open the lock on the trunk when you hit the button. They do not actually OPEN the trunk up. I like that feature a lot.
is4b2rd- are you saying you actually drove the 754i as well?~ A.R.
Jul 06, 2001 (7:53 pm)
Thank you for your thoughtful and courteous response -- it's refreshing!
I disagree with you about several points, however. The 507 is considered by every automotive historian I've ever read as being a seminal car, and I fail to see which Ferrari or Maserati it "stole" from.
Design cues tend to come in bunches, as the stylists learn from each other -- and the Italian designers are no exception. Ferrari has had several major designers, although Pinifarina has been their perennial favorite, and they can take no credit for something they did not create themselves.
As for unique contributions to automotive styling, the BMW c-pillar treatment is recognized world-wide as beautiful and unique, and it is a feature of the marque that continues to this day.
They have also had a wonderful feel for proportion and sportiness that defines the look of all their cars, from the 50s to the current models. Their only missteps, in my opinion, have been the late efforts of their American styling director -- the man responsible for the awkward Z3, and the M3 coupe that brings to mind the ungainly Griffith of the mid to late 60s.
Alfa Romeo probably has the best styling history of ANY marque -- and the BMW 502 certainly echoes certain features of their styling tradition. But they are still beautiful in their own right, and I will take nothing from them because they had the good taste to learn from something truly spectacular.
Jul 06, 2001 (9:50 pm)
Totally agree with you on Alfa Romeo. I think they are back to unique, refreshing designs these days and it is a total shame we can't buy 'em in the US. They had some *dark* years in their recent past, but their current lineup is probably the best designed of any brand.
On BMW, I guess we'll have to disagree on the styling. I see your point. And I do like BMW, and would always check their line-up when getting ready to buy a car (I have owned 2 3-series in the past), but truly can not recall an instance when their styling truly struck me esthetically the way Alfa's or Ferrari's (not that the latter don't have their mis-steps) does. I like them for the great dynamic experience, technology implementation, and yes, competent, albeit not outstanding, design. Their motorcycles reflect the soul of the brand quite a bit, I find - and I love them. The R motorcycles -and I do own one, and love it- are unique: great technology, unique driving experience, sportiness combined with great comfort... and while the design is nice, it is not groundbreaking or goes for passionate esthetics the way an Italian brand would. It is about low-key balance, somehow, no risks and nothing that could be taken to be over-the-top. And when they take risks -like the Z3 you mention-they more often than not screw up, because they seemingly venture out of their comfort zone. I am not at all saying BMWs are ugly, really! I am just saying that I'd associate other things as top BMW core values rather than design by itself.
Jul 07, 2001 (6:32 am)
To some extent Pablo is right. BMW would much rather have the stuff you don't see work perfectly than have a stunner of a car. They have always been conservative, and always will be. Their cars are for driving first and then the other stuff after. I've heard the 7 series described as a Hugo Boss suit- stylish, but conservative and traditional.~ A.R.
#1326 of 24723 I've always thought of BMW
Jul 07, 2001 (11:54 am)
as a German soul in an Italian suit. It's Mercedes that is usually overly conservative to my eye.
Jul 11, 2001 (10:29 am)
At the moment, it's MB who is coming out with daring designs. The S-Class was a large departure from the previous mammoth, squared-off S. The E was daring with those two eyes staring at you, and the C is a scaled down, daring S. The 3 is a bit more conservative, yet it is always described as the best looking sedan of the group. Nevertheless, it is time for BMW to break away from their conservative design, as they are with the new 7. It will take some time for people to realize that this isn't just a smoothed over design, as the previous 7's have been, but a ground up redesign that yes, incorporates BMW design elements, but breaks new ground for the company as well~ A.R.
#1328 of 24723 bo(h)-lony
Jul 11, 2001 (9:57 pm)
......92-99 mammoth S class?? What are you talking about? May be back in 93 among civics and accords it looked big but nowadays old S looks not bigger than other cars, just look at all those SUV's. S class is top of the line---the biggest and the best of all MB's, you want something smaller buy yourself an E or C ---- don't like the size of S don't buy it, it's not for you. I can barely fit my 5 y.'s + 1 y.'s car seats and wife in the back (when they need her attention).
I'd say less talking and more driving, nuff already.