High End Luxury Cars

24700 messages, Last post on Dec 01, 2009 at 12:24 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens

What is this discussion about? Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan

Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.

A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.

Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.

Outline

Messages Page 1309 of 2471: 1; ...; 1306; 1307; 1308; 1309; 1310; 1311; 1312; ...; 2471; Prev; Next; Last

#13079 of 24700 Re: That Is Why [blckislandguy] by brightness04 Jan 12, 2006 (9:24 pm)
Replying to: blckislandguy (Jan 12, 2006 7:01 pm) Very much agree with the gist of what you are saying. A small exception: some professions do need a reliable car, which in the mechanical world often means a relatively new car if not brand new car from a reliable marque. That's one of the reasons why historically, HELM's were usually founded on a core value of reliability: Rolls had the Silver Ghosts that kept on ticking for 25yrs; Bentley had the 24hr race records, which in early days was more about reliability than sheer speed; Mercedes was the very definition of automotive reliability in the 70's and 80's. Other brands, even if expensive, were never really considered HELM brands, such as Ferrari, Lambo and to a lesser degree BMW (which even among BMW fans, are prized for the 3 series not 7 series). Replies to this message: tagman (Jan 12, 2006 10:00 pm) brightness04 (Jan 12, 2006 10:28 pm)
#13080 of 24700 Re: Soul Train [oac] by tagman Jan 12, 2006 (9:33 pm)
Replying to: oac (Jan 12, 2006 8:58 pm) Let's see if we get this correct: The 745/750 has soul, but the LS430/460 doesn't ! oac, those are your words and not mine . . . there is no post where I ever said such a thing or even suggested such a thing. Replies to this message: oac (Jan 12, 2006 10:19 pm) tagman (Jan 12, 2006 10:52 pm) hpowders (Jan 13, 2006 6:09 am) oac (Jan 13, 2006 7:34 am) and 54 more...
#13081 of 24700 Re: Soul Train [brightness04] by tagman Jan 12, 2006 (9:57 pm)
Replying to: brightness04 (Jan 12, 2006 9:18 pm) IMHO, that definition cheapens "soul" in this context. Beat it to death if you want to, but I don't. Replies to this message: brightness04 (Jan 12, 2006 10:33 pm) tagman (Jan 12, 2006 10:59 pm)
#13082 of 24700 Re: That Is Why [brightness04] by tagman Jan 12, 2006 (10:00 pm)
Replying to: brightness04 (Jan 12, 2006 9:24 pm) Other brands, even if expensive, were never really considered HELM brands, such as Ferrari, Lambo and to a lesser degree BMW (which even among BMW fans, are prized for the 3 series not 7 series). Ferrari and Lamborghini would be better classified in the exotic car category, IMO. Further, maybe you should review how FORBES classifies the luxury car segment in their latest list of the top 10 luxury cars. brightness04, Let me just say that I think you are stretching things a LOT to try to suggest that BMW does not (in ANY degree) belong in the H.E.L.M. category, merely because it is "prized for the 3-series". Heck, it is not uncommon for the H.E.L.M.'s to have lower-tiered models that account for the majority of units sold for that particular brand. I do not agree with your suggestion that the flagship models should represent the MAJORITY of units sold (or be "prized") in order for the brand to be classified as a H.E.L.M. That is absolute nonsense. TagMan Replies to this message: brightness04 (Jan 12, 2006 10:28 pm)
#13083 of 24700 Re: Soul Train [tagman] by oac Jan 12, 2006 (10:19 pm)
Replying to: tagman (Jan 12, 2006 9:33 pm) ...there is no post where I ever said such a thing or even suggested such a thing. Not in so many words, perhaps... but all these talk about soul and its definitions from you and your BMW pals ad nauseum are difficult to comprehend within our HELM board, don't you agree ? We are discussing High End Luxury Marques, and we get statements like "BMW has soul but Lexus just doesn't" (quoting Hpowders). Let's get back to talking about the merits/demerits of these cars. Now, do you have a comment about FY2006 and beyond for your fav German brands in the NA market ? Replies to this message: tagman (Jan 12, 2006 10:52 pm) hpowders (Jan 13, 2006 6:09 am) oac (Jan 13, 2006 7:34 am) dewey (Jan 13, 2006 7:42 am) and 15 more... hpowders (Jan 13, 2006 1:14 pm) and 37 more...
#13084 of 24700 Re: That Is Why [tagman] by brightness04 Jan 12, 2006 (10:28 pm)
Replying to: tagman (Jan 12, 2006 10:00 pm) brightness04, Let me just say that I think you are stretching things a LOT to try to suggest that BMW does not (in ANY degree) belong in the H.E.L.M. category, merely because it is "prized for the 3-series". The point was not made based on unit sales. I was merely repeating what some BMW fans said, that 3 series being far better at capturing the essence of the BMW brand than the 7 series. BMW is more a sporting brand, along the lines of Porsche, Ferrari and Lambo (not quite as exotic), not a luxury brand in the traditional sense.
#13085 of 24700 Re: Soul Train [tagman] by brightness04 Jan 12, 2006 (10:33 pm)
Replying to: tagman (Jan 12, 2006 9:57 pm) Beat it to death if you want to, but I don't. I may be a little slow here (late at night and all), so please elaborate. You claimed to have found a definition of "soul" that makes it possible for a car to have a "soul"; following that same definition (your found), I pointed out that that definition would endow every car, and indeed most everything a "soul" . . . which somehow conflicts with your earlier statement that European cars have "soul" whereas Japanese cars don't . . . Replies to this message: tagman (Jan 12, 2006 10:59 pm)
#13086 of 24700 Toyota Exec: Camry and LS460 styled similarly by jrock65 Jan 12, 2006 (10:48 pm)
"Toyota Australia executive director of marketing David Buttner says the new-look Camry carries a lot of styling cues from the Lexus. It has a similar bull-nosed bonnet, bold grille and lumpy rear end of the Lexus LS460, which was unveiled the previous day." I thought that Toyota was seeking to separate the Lexus and Toyota more. But then you have an exec come out and say that the plebian Camry was styled similarly to the Lexus flagship??? Errr... http://carsguide.news.com.au/story/0,20384,17792707-21822,00.html Replies to this message: merc1 (Jan 13, 2006 2:10 am) designman (Jan 13, 2006 5:01 am) scott1256 (Jan 13, 2006 7:19 am) dewey (Jan 13, 2006 7:22 am) oac (Jan 13, 2006 7:56 am) and 1 more...
#13087 of 24700 Re: Soul Train [oac] by tagman Jan 12, 2006 (10:52 pm)
Replying to: oac (Jan 12, 2006 10:19 pm) Those were Hpowders' words, in that case, and not mine. I do not want to be labeled as belonging to one "camp" or another. If you agree or disagree with something I say, then I would be respectfully interested to know your point of view. OK?
#13088 of 24700 Re: Soul Train [brightness04] by tagman Jan 12, 2006 (10:59 pm)
Replying to: brightness04 (Jan 12, 2006 10:33 pm) I may be a little slow here It's looking like it. your earlier statement that European cars have "soul" whereas Japanese cars don't . . . NEVER said it! Tell me the post number where you think I said such a thing . . . and then I'll get back to you. Gosh, I am assuming that you do know how to determine who the author of a post is, and who the author is replying to?