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Sedans High End Luxury Cars
24700 messages, Last post on Dec 01, 2009 at 12:24 PM
You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
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Replying to: ljflx (Jan 08, 2006 5:57 pm) 
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Replying to: tagman (Jan 08, 2006 7:44 pm) OK - back to cars and Goodnight for now. |
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Well, gentlemen, start your engines. This is clearly going to be an exciting year to chart the sales of the new Mercedes S and the Lexus LS. Personally, I'm looking forward to test driving both of them as they become available to do so. I'm guessing that the driving experience has seldom been better, and we are about to be treated to new levels of driving euphoria. The entire auto industry is about to be ignited overall, as BusinessWeek points out the very number of vehicles to choose from will reach 330 in less than two years. New models and technologies are coming fast. Vehicles will come from China soon. The playing field is going to change dramatically. I am still concerned about the "clone" appearance of many of the Toyota/Lexus/Scion vehicles. So many of them, EVEN THE NEW LS, have a similar shape . . . just different sizes and options. It's a self-diluting approach that will require a "freshening" before too long, because the overuse of the same look will get long in the tooth quickly in my opinion. I think it could be a bit dangerous in the long run. Take a look at BusinessWeek, page 54, for those of you that subscribe, and see the picture of the Scion tc coupe. As I look at this, there IS NO DOUBT that it is a member of the Toyota/Lexus/Scion family of vehicles, as it SHARES the SAME shape that I am referring to. I find it interesting to see that a Scion shares some of the design lines with the LS. I guess crazier things can happen. Anyway, it's going to be fun. TagMan
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I've spent some time over the last couple of months in Montreal and found it interesting to take a look at what they drive. Despite the cosmopolitan nature of Montreal, one sees very few high end cars. There are certainly some Volvos, Audis, etc. but almost no S Classes, 7 Series, or similar. At the intersection of Saint Catharine Street and Crescent Street at midnight last night (the ground zero for Montreal night life) there was one lone E Class in a sea of Japanese sedans. Despite the northern climate and hilly terrain, one sees very few AWD cross overs and certainly almost no large SUVs. Full size pickup trucks are not the commuter vehicle of choice for blue collar workers. Even in the rural areas surrounding Montreal (e.g. Iberville), pick up trucks are rare. Some of the difference between what we drive and what they drive can be attributed to their lower wages, higher taxes, and higher fuel costs. But the rest of the difference in ownership patterns must be cultural. Even in the high end Westmount section you just don't see S Classes. The Bentley dealer doesn't even have a new Arnage or Continental GT in stock! I think that the more modest Canadians are not as interested in large, expensive sedans and SUVs as we are.
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Replying to: blckislandguy (Jan 08, 2006 8:36 pm) Not here in Toronto that is known by other Canadians as Hogtown. Some of the difference between what we drive and what they drive can be attributed to their lower wages, higher taxes, and higher fuel costs. In fact Quebec has below average wages and higher taxes and fuel costs relative to the Canadian average figures. |
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Replying to: ljflx (Jan 07, 2006 9:27 pm) True, they mised the SUV party for sure. Actually Mercedes was first to offer one, but the design wasn't what the market wanted. True, but this wasn't in debate. M
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Replying to: oac (Jan 07, 2006 9:23 pm) Saw an LS430, ES330 and SC430 all such stylish vehicles. Not! Let me see if I have this right. It is wrong for Mercedes to launch a new full size SUV, but when Lexus gets around to replacing the ancient LX470 with an even bigger vehicle they'll be doing the right thing I suppose? Right? M |
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Replying to: tagman (Jan 07, 2006 9:31 pm) Definitely, but I have been caught driving there in a blizzard before so... Hey, M1, you mentioned that Jaguar (and others) are lined up to offer their versions of the CLS. What exactly are you referring to that Jaguar is doing in response to the CLS? I'm drawing a blank here. In the Feb issue of Automobile Magazine they're saying that the next XJ (2009) will quit trying to compete with the S/LS/A8/7 and go for the CLS and Quattroporte. Not sure how sound of a business plan that will be, but its only fair since the CLS was reportedly designed to add some Jaguar-like flair to the Mercedes lineup. M |
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Replying to: brightness04 (Jan 07, 2006 9:32 pm) The simple facts remains that those cars were failures until new versions arrived during 2005. You can spin the aimless production capacity theory forever and it won't change anything. You can spin the excuses for why they flopped all day long also, won't change squat either. All this "core competence" and "they didn't up them" is Lexus' fault not anyone elses. Again, feel free to spin this as much as you like! Yada yada on glorious history 100 years ago; too bad it doesn't sell cars to those who can actually afford to buy them. Why other manufacturers try to build a CLS competitor but not an LS competitor? Isn't the answer obvious? Other manufacturers think they can beat MB at its own game but no chance at beating Lexus. Duh! It's relatively cheap and easy to "invent a new segment" but really hard to make impeccable cars that people really want and sell them at competitive prices; that's a game few excell at, and Lexus happens to be one of the masters. This makes more sense than ever before. Now we know who can and who can't afford a Mercedes and we now know who is buying them. Stupendous! No one is trying to build a LS430 because the LS started out as the grandest copycat car of them all. The European brands all have their own heritage and brand identity in spades, enough not to go chasing and building blank copy of each other's cars, thats why. Besides what European or even American luxury car make (besides maybe Lincolin) is going to purposely set out to build an ugly, poor handling land yacht like the current LS430? None. Now I'm reading where you think Lexus ran out of staff so they couldn't update the previous GS? OMG, WHAT BS! M
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Replying to: oac (Jan 08, 2006 1:05 am) No, actually I was replying to a previous post. Secondly, all your off-base assumptions and continued peadaling of hype about MB won't stop them from turning things around either. Remember that next time you post a story about some piece of MB tech not working, without having read the whole article first. Talking of copying, I wonder how many German auto companies would love to have the TPS in their factories, eh ???? Maybe no one thinks the TPS is such a great system, eh ??? Who would have thunk it that Lexus could make such quality cars ? No one is copying Lexus' customer service, build quality, reliable automobiles, seamless integration of electronics, 8-speed tranny, hybrid synergy system, TPS, etc. Totally unimportant in the car business, eh ? Alrighty.... let's move on... See here is where you make no sense to me. We were talking about copying and yet you bring up what other makes would like to have in their factories. Don't you think that by now anyone who wanted to use TPS would have approached Toyota by now, either publically or behind the scenes? Sure Toyota is the best there is at lean, quality production. You'd better hope they don't get arrogant like GM and wind up exposing their rear flank to the Koreans and Chinese. Since you implied something about Lexus' 8-speed tranny like someone is already coping it? I'd really like to know who is, since you seem to imply that someone is. WHO? Total ridiculousness to sit there and say that others are copying Lexus' build quality and reliability when these are things that every car built in the world today strives to achieve. Toyota didn't event these things, they've only perfected it in the modern era, and Audi ain't trying to copy squat from Toyota in the way of build quality either. One look at one and you'll see why if don't have Lexus blinders on. M |
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