Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#12537 of 24726 Re: 2005 sales [brightness04]
Jan 05, 2006 (9:22 pm)
Some logic consistency please. If 14k units in the first model year is considered great sucess, the old GS and IS did just fine.
How about some common sense please. The GS and especially IS were dirt cheap (compared to a CLS) and competed in a much cheaper segment than the CLS and still coudln't sell in the past. The CLS isn't nearly as cheap, and that lease mumbo jumbo isn't going to apply because MB had no trouble at all moving 14,000 CLS. Quit comparing a 30K IS to a 65K CLS and saying the IS didn't do bad in sales back then. Plain ridiculous, you're comparing three different segments with the IS,GS and CLS, yet can come up with a grand excuse for the IS and GS for being sales flops until now. Must be the Lexus math/logic.
Alternatively, you have to admit that numerous MB models "don't do squat for MB" either; the list would be a long one: SL, CL, CLK, CLS, S AMG, E AMG, C AMG, CL AMG, SLK AMG, G, G AMG, etc. etc, accounting for more than 3/4 models in the MB lineup.
I guess you have the sales numbers for those AMG models to back up this really bogus claim right? Most if not all of cars you mention cost more than most any Lexus, yet they're supposed to set the sales charts on fire. All those models most certainly do add up when the final numbers are counted, difference is you don't see anyone constantly harping about how Mercedes is going to outsell this and outsell that everytime someone brings up ANY other aspect of an automobile.
Twist, spin and twist is your game here..knowing full well those high-end models like "E AMG", "C AMG" aren't going to set a sales chart on fire, yet two of Lexus main cars, priced attractively in a competitive segment couldn't sell at all (first IS) and/or dropped off like a rock (GS after 2000). Two compare the two segments is silly and I think you know this.
One minute the AMG models mean nothing in the total sales picture (your words from a few weeks ago) now they're supposed to set the sales charts on fire, nevermind that nothing from Lexus competes with these models and in most cases no Lexus is even in the same price range. The CL,SL,G, and their AMG versions, plus the AMG versions of the E,C,SLK, and G. Absurd.
#12538 of 24726 Re: Another '07 S-Class fan - NOT! [garyh1]
Jan 05, 2006 (11:03 pm)
C&D formally reviewed the S550 this month, and I really dont remember any complaints about the styling. Strangely, they said that the new knob based COMAND system is the best one in a German car yet (even better than MMI) and at the same time, had a piece on how difficult it was to do simple operations like changing the radio station. C&D contradicted itself several times this issue, actually.
#12539 of 24726 Re: Another '07 S-Class fan - NOT! [lexusguy]
Jan 05, 2006 (11:08 pm)
I haven't seen a review of the new S yet that didn't say that the new Comand Controller wasn't the easiest to use of the three German systems. It isn't unusual for one or two C&D editors to go against their overall view in that counterpoint section, but a whole section about Comand and what not that doesn't say the same thing as the roadtest?
C&D overall is becoming really fickle now it seems, even more so than usual.
The usually harsh British press loves the car.
#12540 of 24726 Re: Another '07 S-Class fan - NOT! [garyh1]
Jan 06, 2006 (4:26 am)
"Its formally clean shape is broken up by exaggerated fender flares, not to mention a busy trunk that looks to be inspired by — believe it or not — the current 7 Series. In this case both the actual fender flares (that go so far as to break up the headlight design), and the general sense of "flair" swirling about the entire vehicle distort any sense of world-class luxury car. Some have suggested the S-Class took its styling cues from Mercedes' ultrahigh-end brand, Maybach. Well, there are two models that have garnered styling accolades in recent years and should serve as inspiration — the 7 Series and the Maybach."
I have to reserve final judgment until I see the car in person, but from the pictures I've seen, I unfortunately have to say I agree (except for the last two sentences, for which I can't figure out exactly what he is trying to say).
He's being sarcastic.
#12541 of 24726 2007 LS article
Jan 06, 2006 (6:51 am)
(cross-posted on the 2007 LS forum)
Anyone know how the 500Nm translates into lb-ft?
Also, lexusi had some interesting tidbits here.
#12542 of 24726 Re: 2007 LS article [syswei]
Jan 06, 2006 (6:58 am)
500 newton meter = 368.781 pound foot.
#12543 of 24726 Re: Another '07 S-Class fan - NOT! [designman]
Jan 06, 2006 (7:04 am)
He's being sarcastic.
Thanks. Reading it again in the light of day, that seems obvious. That will teach me to try to interpret subtle humor after midnight!
#12544 of 24726 Re: 2007 LS article [syswei]
Jan 06, 2006 (7:10 am)
If that 370hp holds true that will be the biggest leap in hp ever from one LS to another. It make sense though because they always split hp between the two S-Class V8 models. In this case those two being the 335hp S450 and the 382hp S550.
Funny how you posted this article on the LS board right after someone else claimed that their "sources" told them this stuff.
#12545 of 24726 Re: 2007 LS article [merc1]
Jan 06, 2006 (7:38 am)
Well, the bump from 4.0 to 4.3 at least on paper made basicaly no change at all. They already had 290hp out of the last few years of the 4.0 (300hp in the GS version). A few ft.lbs of torque, and that was it. They need a lot more than a few more ft.lbs of torque this time around in order to keep up with the S550 and 750i.
#12546 of 24726 Re: 2005 sales [brightness04]
Jan 06, 2006 (8:03 am)
BMW is the number one luxury car seller in USA!
I would not call 325i a luxury car. That model alone accounts for about half of all BMW car sales.
So there we have it. BMW isn't in the luxury car business. That'll be news to a lot of people....