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High End Luxury Cars

24723 messages,  Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum.

What is this discussion about? Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan



Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.

A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.

Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.

Messages Page 1250 of 2473

#12483 of 24723 Perhaps the dumbest car review ever written by garyh1

Jan 01, 2006 (5:01 pm)

Warren Brown wrote about the 2006 Lexus LS in the Washington Post today. The whole review was about how he didn't like the way the rear seat felt to sit on (he loves the rear seat in the Lincoln Town Car), and how the LS wasn't worth the money since it didn't have a DVD screen in the back and a Honda Odyssey, which costs much less, does.
 
The funny thing is that in the sidebar to the article, he notes "The LS 430 has excellent acceleration and superior handling. From the driver's seat, the car is an absolute joy, especially when its electronic suspension is set on the "Sport" mode." But somehow that doesn't matter since his tush didn't like the rear seat and his 11-yr-old godson missed his family's minivan's DVD player.
 
The other brilliant observation was "Nearly everybody mistook the Lexus LS 430 for an S-Class Mercedes-Benz. That may be flattering to Mercedes-Benz, but it does little to establish an independent LS 430 identity." Of course, no where in the article did he mention that the next model has already been announced and shown (at least in pre-production form), and it looks nothing like an S-class.
 
One thing I noted is that he drove an Ultra Luxury package which had the "Euro-tuned Sport Suspension" - so merc1, other people don't seem to have a problem finding the sport setup that you repeatedly say doesn't exist.
 
In any case, everybody who rides in the back of my '05 LS loves it. So unless Lexus did something very weird with the '06 model, I really don't understand what this guy is talking about.
 
So according to Mr. Brown, we're all wrong here: the LS is in fact a great "driver's car" with superb handling; it's just a poor "passenger's car" filled with technology you can get for less in other (non-luxury) cars.
 
You gotta read this to believe it (free website registration):
 
Wash Post LS review

#12484 of 24723 Re: Perhaps the dumbest car review ever written [garyh1] by lexusguy

Jan 01, 2006 (5:11 pm)

Replying to: garyh1 (Jan 01, 2006 5:01 pm)
Talk to a Lexus dealer. The "Euro Sport" LS430s are in fact quite rare. Most of the cars have the air springs.

#12485 of 24723 Re: Perhaps the dumbest car review ever written [garyh1] by merc1

Jan 01, 2006 (6:21 pm)

Replying to: garyh1 (Jan 01, 2006 5:01 pm)
One thing I noted is that he drove an Ultra Luxury package which had the "Euro-tuned Sport Suspension" - so merc1, other people don't seem to have a problem finding the sport setup that you repeatedly say doesn't exist.
 
First of all I didn't say that a LS430 with the Euro option didn't exist. What I said was that it is a hard to get, which is true, despite one clueless reporter's report. The fact remains that a LS430 with the Euro option is all but impossible for everday consumers to test drive.
 
Reading that confirms that car reviews from a newspaper (and other non-automotive sources) are nothing more than a jokes.
 
M

#12486 of 24723 Re: Perhaps the dumbest car review ever written [garyh1] by dewey

Jan 01, 2006 (6:52 pm)

Replying to: garyh1 (Jan 01, 2006 5:01 pm)
As much as I enjoy disagreeing with you I will agree with you on this post.

#12487 of 24723 WORDS OF WISDOM by dewey

Jan 02, 2006 (5:30 pm)

In fact that Warren Brown fellow from Washington Post is a genius!
 
Below is a portion of a transcript from a CNN interview with Warren Brown dated March 16th, 2002.
 
The following interview has wisdom that CR worshippers tend to ignore:
 
BROWN: There is no such thing as an unbiased report. For example, you look at "Consumer Reports", it calls itself unbiased. And certainly to its readers, it is. But it does tend to lean very heavily in favor of Japanese cars and those kinds of models.
 
CALLAWAY: Right.
 
BROWN: Primarily because that's where its readers tend to lean. Then you look at something from say "Car and Driver" or "Road and Track" or "Motortrend," and you'll get a completely different picture. My favorite is the AAA car guide, primarily because it seems to come from a wider base of buyers, a wider base of experience, but there actually we have certain elements of bias.
 
The best thing to do, if you can, is to read as many of them as you possibly can, and also to check various Web sites to see what's there. One of my favorites is Edmunds.com. It tends to give a fairly dry, you know, presentation of what's available. There's also KBB.com and various and sundry others. So you just have to do your research and then go with your gut.
 
CNN

#12488 of 24723 Re: WORDS OF WISDOM [dewey] by docnukem

Jan 03, 2006 (10:01 am)

Replying to: dewey (Jan 02, 2006 5:30 pm)
I have found that there are far more CR bashers than CR "worshippers" in these forums. True, there are many who do weigh what CR says when they are buying (and I think anyone who consciously chooses to completely ignore CR's take on used cars is foolish. I am in no way saying that CR's take should be the only criteria--far from it). I do not feel there are many here who choose a car only by what CR says. These might be considered CR users, rather than worshippers.
 
BTW, Brown can't be both an idiot (for his recent review) and a genius.
 
On this (HELM) board, there are probably more people who discount CR more than on other boards, simply because they may have the means to. In other words, maintenance costs and reliability in getting from point A to point B may not be as crucial.
 
I would guess that most people who bash CR are bashing their relative ratings (as bias can creep into things easier when objective measures are weighted subjectively) rather than their testing methods and surveys. Brown was probably referring to this bias (as CR does cater to their audience, and things like reliability and costs are more important to that population than those who read auto mags).

#12489 of 24723 Re: WORDS OF WISDOM [dewey] by lexusguy

Jan 03, 2006 (3:13 pm)

Replying to: dewey (Jan 02, 2006 5:30 pm)
The funny thing is, thats really not true about CR. People tend to take CR reliability ratings as CR's own review of the car. Perhaps CR should change the "recommended" tag to a different word, because cars that are often not recommended make it very high on the list because of their performance scores.
 
In their Luxury Sedans catergory, the Mercedes E and S, BMW 5, and the Audi A6 and A8, all rank above the Acura RL and Lexus GS. If CR was so blatantly biased towards Japanese cars, shouldnt the results be M, GS, LS, and RL all taking the top spots?
 
CR is biased like anyone else, their own editors all have specific things they are looking for in a car, which implies bias, regardless of whether advertising pays the bills at CR or not. The difference between CR and say C&D, is that one of the things CR looks for is reliability. Thats not the only thing they care about. If it was, Japanese cars would win every segment like some seem to think they do. The automags could care less about that, except perhaps in the long term tests, and then major problems are often glossed over as "teething pains".

#12490 of 24723 CR's Reliability Ratings by hpowders

Jan 03, 2006 (3:43 pm)

are not predictive because they are too skewed to the past- averaging the last 3 years of data per car for each "current" rating.
This faulty analysis IMO makes their "current" reliability ratings useless.
 
Another flaw: When 2 cars are rated "average" and "below average" respectively, where's the cut-off point?
A car may be black-circled as "below average" for achieving 1 point less than the "average vehicle."
The ratings CR uses are simply too vague because they don't reveal the total number of points earned by each vehicle.
Some cars with different ratings may be only a point or 2 apart while 2 others may be many points apart.
 
I cannot respect the CR ratings until they come out and once and for all give comprehensive detailed ratings for each vehicles with point totals.
 
I e-mailed them about this but they responded with their usual "mumbo-jumbo."
 
CR seems to be an organization that has grown too big for its own good (much like the AARP), with little respect for the consumer they profess to serve.

#12491 of 24723 I'm gonna jump in here by pat

Jan 03, 2006 (3:45 pm)

because I know what's about to happen.
 
This is not about Consumer Reports. I do not know if there is a current topic on Consumer Reports on our News & Views board (there have been many), but whether there is or there is not, that's where this debate belongs.
 
We are here to talk about, well, you know.

#12492 of 24723 Happy New Year - belatedly by oac

Jan 04, 2006 (1:47 pm)

To everyone and their loved ones/families and friends. Isn't it so nice to talk less and listen more ? I am loving my back-seat lurking mode so much, I may make it semi-permanent.
 
BTW, just got the LX470 an '03, and loving it. Now solidly Lexus in my car/truck purchases. Was talking to my dealer last week and he opined that the 2007 LS460 base would not add much to 2006 LS430 base price. That would be nice. And that the LS600h is projected at $90K-ish base, which would come pretty much loaded. That is beyond my price range, so I am taking a pass. My 110K miles '99 LS400 is long due for a replacement, and now that Santa (my wife) has gotten her LX, the road is clear for a 2007 LS for me. However, this time I will possibly expand my LS replacement search to include the A8 and the 750i (if the new redo gets here by next year). No MB in my future until they get their act together... Sorry.
 
Now back to the rocking chair.... Wishing everyone the very best in this new year.

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