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High End Luxury Cars

24723 messages,  Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum.

What is this discussion about? Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan



Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.

A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.

Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.

Messages Page 1191 of 2473

#11899 of 24723 Re: Fact checking !!! [oac] by merc1

Dec 10, 2005 (1:55 pm)

Replying to: oac (Dec 10, 2005 1:26 pm)
First let me be quite clear here. I do NOT care about being credible with YOU. Obviously you have a huge ego about yourself, more power to you. You are a poster here like everyone else. As to reliability, wow... where do one start ? There is too much track record here of your statements.... Lets just let sleeping dogs lie.
 
Thats all fine and good, problem is posting incorrect sales figures, statements about Mercedes safety systems failing and how they invited journalist to come and watch are extremely mis-leading at best, to say the least. It does a great diservice to readers who tend to believe any and everything they read on the internet and if it weren't for others double checking most of this stuff it would be left to stand as fact, when it couldn't be any further from the truth.
 
It all depends on what you want in a car. Sportier than others suggests others are aiming for sportiness in their products. What if they aren't ? What if each car is biased towards some strength of its maker ? What you have no clue about is market/product differentiation. A product that doesn't differentiate itself is doomed to failure. Do you even remotely get this ?? So pls stop the *ultimate* driving machine sloganeering. It only matters to those who target such feature.
 
It seems to me that BMW has proven over and over that they are just that, the ultimate driving machine. Now since Lexus opened their big mouth and said they were targeting this and failed we get this spin about this slogan only meaning something to people that BMWs appeal to! You're kidding! I thought that was the whole reason for having a slogan or advertising in the first place - to reach a core group of people or a select audience. All the irrelevancy about customer service and what not the Lexus fans constantly tout likewise only matters to people who place such things above all else.
 
Lexus' strength and differentiators are luxury, refinement, reliability and customer service. And that's why they have been so hugely successful. BMW may appeal to *sportiness* and that may make them successful. MB may appeal to heritage and marqueness, and that may be enough for them to be successful.
 
Who is arguing with this? You act as though no other car other than a Lexus is luxurious or reliable. The truth is that other cars are just that, at least enough to keep their buyers interested. The ridiculous theory about Lexus selling so many cars and being so perfect because of that is just plain silly when other brands are in the same sales ballpark, esepcially BMW. That alone tells you that their are other factors besides reliability and customer service that sells these cars.
 
Yep. MBs are more in touch with the road than Lexus ! You an say that with a straight face ? Have you owned or driven extensively an S-500 and LS430 to judge that ? Or is it what you read in auto mags ?
 
Nope, don't need to own a car to know how it drives. Another fallacy given here constantly, that you have to own a car to know how it drives. You're able to tell how a 330i drives from a test drive of a few minutes, or at least to be able to tell it drives sportier, but no one else is able to do the same with a test drive of a LS430 vs the competition. I've driven the LS430 a few times now and the S-Class many times and my opinions on both as to how they drive are based on such driving experience. Don't need to own one to see and feel how they drive, don't be ridiculous. If I made a statement about which car was more reliable or disputed the fact that the LS shows to be more reliable in survey - then I'd need to own one of them of both. Not to know that the LS430 keeled over like a barge at Lexus' own test drive event.
 
You are simply looking for something to trump out as non-credible. The post of mine you quote stated NOTHING about a timeline. I said LS was outselling S + 7-series COMBINED. Did I tell you which year that was, or like your colleague, you simply assumed I meant 2005 YTD. So when I specified the timeline, why not prove that wrong instead of denigrating my post ? If you have the facts for 2004 why not present it ?
 
Well it really doesn't require much "looking" to see the hype often presented here. Sales figures YTD that have been light by one month for the non-Lexus brand or articles about safety equipment failing without the whole story being posted - nothing but hype.
 
Lastly, this about Lexus and their product differenation skills is a joke. They have 4 sedans and 3 SUVs, yet they're so diversified as to make them all boring (except the IS350) and drive more or less alike (again except the IS350), yeah that is product "differentiation" alright. Seems to me they've made their success on making the same type of product for different segments not because they offer something from everyone as you try to imply. People looking for sporty car that isn't small like the IS or a sporty car without 4-doors are out of luck at a Lexus store. Seems to me product diversity is something they're only just now trying to do with sportier cars like the IS and to a lesser degree the new GS. Until now all they had was boring, yawnish sedans and even more drole SUVs.
 
Oh, If BMWs aren't the ultimate driving machines in the luxury segment then what brand is? It certainly isn't Lexus. Yet if someone were to suggest that the ultimate in luxury is a Lexus, this would be gladly excepted as some type of fact. If BMW isn't the maker of the ultimate driving machine from the 325i all the way up to a 760i Sport, then who is?
 
M

#11900 of 24723 Re: Tagman [oac] by designman

Oct 26, 2005 (7:15 am)

Replying to: oac (Dec 10, 2005 1:51 pm)
I always try to get my kids to eat brocholli. I remind them its good for them, but they go eeewwwww !!!!
 
Oac, a BMW is good for you. C'mon now, just take a couple of forkfuls and you can go watch TV.
 

#11901 of 24723 Re: Fact checking !!! [hpowders] by oac

Dec 10, 2005 (1:56 pm)

Replying to: hpowders (Dec 10, 2005 1:49 pm)
You can compare any car in any category where BMW "lives."
It doesn't matter-whether it's SUV's or sedans, it is a simple fact of life.
BMW's are the Ultimate Driving Machines in their price categories.
 
Geez... I have some free time today... no golf game, hence time for Edmunds HELM...
 
Ultimate; adj, Representing or exhibiting the greatest possible development or sophistication; n: The greatest extreme; the maximum...
 
If defined narrowly as you do: in its space, then maybe. But I doubt if BMW defines this so narrowly.

#11902 of 24723 Re: Tagman [designman] by oac

Dec 10, 2005 (1:57 pm)

Replying to: designman (Oct 26, 2005 7:15 am)
Oac, a BMW is good for you ...
 
I've tried buying one, so far... no can-do... Maybe someday when I am a geezer - retired and wanting to re-live my youthful years all over again, after the pampering by Lexus sedans and trucks...

#11903 of 24723 Re: Fact checking !!! [merc1] by hpowders

Dec 10, 2005 (1:57 pm)

Replying to: merc1 (Dec 10, 2005 1:55 pm)
Word!

#11904 of 24723 Re: Lexicans who vilify BMW [designman] by merc1

Dec 10, 2005 (1:57 pm)

Replying to: designman (Dec 10, 2005 1:52 pm)
I heard BMW’s competitors in “sport guise” mentioned here. I want to point something out. You can’t even get an LS430 in it’s native sport guise. I tried on numerous occasions to drive one but it ain’t happening. On my last attempt the sales person told me that he had one person order it the past year and the car was never delivered, couldn’t be delivered. And this is a big dealership. That shows you where the Lexus sport mentality is at. There is none, period.
 
Exactly!
 
M

#11905 of 24723 Try Driving by hpowders

Dec 10, 2005 (1:59 pm)

A BMW with the comfort seats and you will never go back to Lexus again!

#11906 of 24723 Re: Fact checking !!! [oac] by hpowders

Dec 10, 2005 (2:07 pm)

Replying to: oac (Dec 10, 2005 1:56 pm)
There is no "maybe" except to the absurdists.
Of course,"in its space."
One cannot compare a $60,000 545 to a $200,000 Italian race car.

#11907 of 24723 Re: Fact checking !!! [merc1] by oac

Dec 10, 2005 (2:15 pm)

Replying to: merc1 (Dec 10, 2005 1:55 pm)
Merc1: This recent post is a very nice one. I like it a lot actually. More moderate. Pls keep this up and we'll truly get a good debate going here.
 
Oh, If BMWs aren't the ultimate driving machines in the luxury segment then what brand is? It certainly isn't Lexus. Yet if someone were to suggest that the ultimate in luxury is a Lexus, this would be gladly excepted as some type of fact. If BMW isn't the maker of the ultimate driving machine from the 325i all the way up to a 760i Sport, then who is?
 
In its space as you and hpowders have defined it, I'd say BMW is truly a much better *driving* car than some others. The M twins are pretty good too. I have driven the M35. The IS350 is pretty good as well. I have driven it too. The IS350 and M-twins are new challengers to the BMW crown in this space. Only in the last couple of years have there been any serious challenge to BMW in this area. What it portends is more challenge in the future. Hopefully, more challenge means better cars in the future. I still want a small compact lux sedan. May be a 330i (hate the e90, prefer the e46) or an IS350 (too expensive, gotta wait for it to come down), but my real target is a convertible. Which car meets my needs at that time (kids left home for College) will get my money.
 
Or maybe step up to the real (affordable) ultimate driving machines - the Porsches, and get a 911 or 940. That'd be a real driving sports car, just for wifey and I.

#11908 of 24723 Re: Fact checking !!! [oac] by merc1

Dec 10, 2005 (2:21 pm)

Replying to: oac (Dec 10, 2005 2:15 pm)
So in other words BMW is just that, the Ultimate Driving Machine then. The fact is that there is no other brand playing in the luxury field that keeps sport so relevant in every product they build. Doesn't matter which BMW you look at, the sport factor is there in spades.
 
Infiniti is trying to build the same type of house in Japan and they're well on their way to doing so, but they've got some details yet to iron out before approaching BMW overall.
 
M

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