Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#11834 of 24723 Re: Fact checking !!! [oac]
Dec 09, 2005 (2:06 pm)
The “Ultimate Driving Machine" is all marketing BS.
No it ain’t. Actually I think BMW marketing hitchhiked onto it in the 70s courtesy of the customer love affair with the 2002. So I think it was created by customers and/or the press as opposed to being a creation of marketing and advertising. I’m not totally sure about it and could be wrong but will try to look it up one of these days unless someone else can verify. Regardless, the claim is true, at least we BMW enthusiasts believe it to be true, so does the press. I like sports cars and I like the driving qualities of BMW sedans which are the closest things to sports cars in the sedan world, hence the ultimate driving machines with four doors.
Hey, I’m thinking about forming a new club called the Loosen Up Club Klatch (LUCK) designed specifically for intense Edmunds Posters who take cars and their brands too seriously. You will get back rubs, decaffeinated coffee, attendants that say “I understand” and “Yes, I think you are right”. And most importantly, I will hire a medical professional to design a skin patch for when we get the urge to get on the computer for anything that is unrelated to work. If ctsang comes through with the donation, I will see to it that part of it goes to LUCK. Promise.
#11835 of 24723 Re: Fact checking !!! [oac]
Dec 09, 2005 (2:25 pm)
The LS outsells the 7 and S-class COMBINED. You don't like to hear that cos it doesn't favor your world view of cars. If these automobiles you covet so much are just artifacts to stare at, maybe. But they are FOR SALE, and only through this can we judge their success.... Tough if you don't like it, but that is the unvanished TRUTH.
Unvanished truth, huh? If you're going to spread truths, then you should probably have the facts to back it up.
Facts: As of Dec 1, LS430 YTD sales = 23723, 7-Series YTD sales = 15989, S-Class YTD sales = 14124. 30113 COMBINED.
Unvanishedly made up. Good job.
#11836 of 24723 Re: Fact checking !!! [hpowders]
Dec 09, 2005 (2:45 pm)
if Lexus advertised its LS430 as "Ultimate Geezer Machine" I would admire the company for its honesty
Posted twice in the past, this shows what the geezers are really driving:
#11837 of 24723 Just an opinion
Dec 09, 2005 (2:50 pm)
Everyone might just step back and review all of their opinions, and realize that all of the cars we enjoy are going up...Merecedes slipped and had now started back up. BMW up, and my car Audi is really good, although it is seldom mentioned..
The super rich people I have had the pleasure to know seem to prefer a big SUV to carry their entourage(sp) from their planes to wherever..There aren`t really that many enthusiasts other than us small `band of brothers` and it is fun to read the opinions no matter what they are..Tony
#11838 of 24723 Bad Reasoning by the Lexus guys
Dec 09, 2005 (2:54 pm)
The logic that you Lexus guys keep using is that the more cars you can sell, there is some implied superiority to the vehicle. That's the biggest bunch of baloney I've ever heard. I guess from that reasoning, exotic cars have no value, and pickup trucks, which represent the single biggest sellers, are therefore the best-built vehicles.
#11839 of 24723 Re: Fact checking !!! [syswei]
Dec 09, 2005 (3:00 pm)
I believe the Lexus average age is indicated in the 40's because of all the suburban yuppie soccer moms in their 20's and 30's driving Lexus SUV's to the mall.
You must know that the average age for people driving Lexus cars is higher than the 40's.
#11840 of 24723 Re: Bad Reasoning by the Lexus guys [tagman]
Dec 09, 2005 (3:17 pm)
The logic that you Lexus guys keep using is that the more cars you can sell, there is some implied superiority to the vehicle. That's the biggest bunch of baloney I've ever heard.
If Lexus is selling more vehicles than a competitor in the same class, then indeed, more people find Lexus superior to MB than find MB superior to Lexus. That doesn't mean Lexus is objectively superior; it means that more people find Lexus superior based on their own subjective needs/desires.
Now, lest you claim that it is all due to price, let me point out that there are ample MB choices for those who can't afford an S or SL. Indeed MB's product line starts marginally lower in price than Lexus'. In other words, MB brackets Lexus' price structure. If Lexus ran from 30-80 and MB from 40-170, then the price arguement would hold water in regards to overall nameplate sales. But the reality is different.
#11841 of 24723 Re: Bad Reasoning by the Lexus guys [tagman]
Dec 09, 2005 (3:27 pm)
Nope. Go by test drives, things I seek in a car, luxury items, dealer service, personal experience, knowledge of what problems people in my circles have had with their cars, build quality and reliability and many other variables not necessarily in the order I just wrote. The fact that the brand and its parent keep growing at the expense of others is a clear indication of where consumer preference is though.
You know we can argue this to the cows come home. But one thing is for sure - Japan is on a big upswing and Germany is on a downswing.
#11842 of 24723 Re: Bad Reasoning by the Lexus guys [ljflx]
Dec 09, 2005 (3:44 pm)
But one thing is for sure - Japan is on a big upswing and Germany is on a downswing.
There you go again . . . it's all about numbers.
Then, like I said, if it's about numbers, I guess pickup trucks rule. Are we about to see a Lexus pickup truck?
This is so hard to put into words, but it wouldn't matter to me if the Japanese sold a billion cars and the Europeans only sold a dozen. I'd be one of the 12. There is something missing in those Lexus vehicles, as great as they may be in certain respects, as though Lexus's are reliable robots without a heart or soul.
#11843 of 24723 Re: Bad Reasoning by the Lexus guys [tagman]
Dec 09, 2005 (3:57 pm)
Hey, if Lexus doesn't have what you want, no one here is saying you should be buying one.
But neither should you think that just because you feel Lexus has no heart or soul, that everyone else sees it that way, or that everyone else finds that most important in their evaluation of different cars.