Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#11728 of 24723 Re: I Agree to Disagree.. [designman]
Dec 07, 2005 (9:47 am)
There was no extraordinary price increase when the policy of free maintenance was initiated.
The engines are so amazing that the only maintenance I ever needed were oil changes every 15,000 miles on any of my bimmers since 1993. BMW knows this. They weren't about to offer free maintenance if they were going to lose big bucks on the deal.
They even generously allow you to bring the car in more frequently for oil changes if you wish, but they try to keep that "a secret."
Kudos to BMW for having the confidence to offer this deal. That says a lot for their vehicles' real-world reliability.
Could you see Audi or Mercedes offering such a deal?
They may have to, if they expect to compete.
#11729 of 24723 Re: I Agree to Disagree.. [hpowders]
Dec 07, 2005 (9:57 am)
They can put any spin that makes them feel better, but straight to the bottom line:
LONG TERM WARRANTY = GOOD & POSITIVE EXPERIENCE
SHORT TERM WARRANTY = NOT AS GOOD
INCLUDED MAINTENANCE = GOOD & POSITIVE EXPERIENCE
NO INCLUDED MAINTENANCE = NOT AS GOOD
Doesnt matter what brand it is. Good warranty and maintenance coverage simply make for a better overall experience. What is there to argue about on this?
#11730 of 24723 Re: True Luxury Cars. READ THIS!! by TagMan [ljflx]
Dec 07, 2005 (10:12 am)
1)In the boardrooms of MB, VW/Audi, BMW, Jaguar, which car maker do they talk about most ? I'd wager its Toyota/Lexus
2)Because not focusing on a competitor like Lexus is blatantly stupid - in all three cases.
My response was based on statement number one. As I mentioned in a prior post, I disagree with the statement.
Any car company would be stupid in ignoring Lexus. Any luxury car maker is stupid in being oblivious about Hyundai's luxury marque next year!
Any car company that ignores any competitor is stupid! I agree!
So you say Toyota is not smug?? It ceases to amaze me that you think so!
Maybe I am just a bit too thin skinned and sensitive but to me the ultimate form of smugness is when a competitor like Toyota talks about a fellow competitor like GM as a disability case that needs to be treated altruistically.
#11731 of 24723 Re: I Agree to Disagree.. [designman]
Dec 07, 2005 (10:29 am)
Designman - I'd bet this was just a credit to one expense budget and a debit to another. I don't think BMW raised prices to cover the cost. You can only do this by MSRP comparatives anyway as the rest is negotiation expertise or lease deals offered. If I were a BMW buyer I would not look at this as a cost of the car unless I knew for sure they raised prices an extra $700+ to cover it. Looked at differently this is also a smart thing to do. It ensures the maintenance income goes into the dealer network and adds to dealer profits. It's a different way of BMW compensating dealers. It's a win-win-win across the board if it works and if BMW leases a higher percentage of cars than it sells it ensures they get the treatment they want as maintenance and hence get the car back the way they wanted it serviced. The only loser is the local guy you may have serviced your car at instead of the dealership.
#11732 of 24723 Re: True Luxury Cars. READ THIS!! by TagMan [dewey]
Dec 07, 2005 (10:33 am)
Yes I'm saying they are not smug. You paint a picture off one statement that was probably the result of bad translation. I paint a picture by actions and past history. By that the Germans win this by 3 or 4 touchdowns and a bunch of field goals.
We disagree - completely. No further discussion required on my part.
#11733 of 24723 Re: I Agree to Disagree.. [tagman]
Dec 07, 2005 (10:40 am)
I am quite surprised that Lexus doesn't match BMW on the free maintenance deal.
It would only come down to oil changes on most of their vehicles and it sure would go a long way to instilling a feeling of good will toward their customers.
#11734 of 24723 Re: True Luxury Cars. READ THIS!! by TagMan [ljflx]
Dec 07, 2005 (10:42 am)
You paint a picture off one statement that was probably the result of bad translation
By that the Germans win this by 3 or 4 touchdowns and a bunch of field goals.
LOST IN TRANSLATION applies equally to those who are unable to use German-English dictionaries!
#11735 of 24723 Edmunds posters vs. The World
Dec 07, 2005 (10:42 am)
It is often mentioned here that we who frequent these forums are not the "typical" car buyers, and I totally agree. Did any of you happen to catch Tom and Ray on the NPR show "Car Talk" a couple of weeks ago when someone asked what they thought between getting a Jag, an MB or a BMW? Their response: Jags are pretty but unreliable, BMWs are hard to use with the iDrive, and MBs were the most reliable and trouble-free, so go with the MB.
Just goes to point out how hard it is to change established perceptions, even with so-called "experts" (and boy, is that good news for MB). What planet have these guys been broadcasting from for the past 5-10 years?
#11736 of 24723 Re: Edmunds posters vs. The World [garyh1]
Dec 07, 2005 (10:45 am)
I am no technical genius but I was amazed and quite pleasantly surprised at how easy the iDrive actually is after reading almost unanimous denigration.
I can't imagine anyone over 9 years old having any major trouble with it.
I would have to say the Car Talk guys were most likely parroting what they read about iDrive in CR and the auto mags.
Those 2 guys who supposedly can take a car apart and put it back together having difficulty with a knob that clicks up, down, left and right and turns??
Give me a break!!
#11737 of 24723 Re: Edmunds posters vs. The World [garyh1]
Dec 07, 2005 (11:05 am)
NPR badly needs our expertise!
I think it's about time we should make our voices heard more publicly(hopefully without restraining orders).