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High End Luxury Cars

24723 messages,  Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum.

What is this discussion about? Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan



Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.

A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.

Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.

Messages Page 1143 of 2473

#11420 of 24723 Re: continuation [dewey] by ljflx

Nov 22, 2005 (5:42 pm)

Replying to: dewey (Nov 22, 2005 5:23 pm)
Doesn't anyone realize that the future resales cited are based on the lease residuals offered? Subsidize the lease and you get rewarded. Don't subsidize the lease and you get penalized. This stuff can almost be considered marketing costs. I'll say it again - in 2001 the S500 was supposed to retain 68% of its MSRP based on my lease after 3 years and 36K miles. It probably won the award that year for future resale value. Unfortunately 3 years later it retained under 50% and finished in the cellar in the real world of retention values. No need for any Lexicans to scramble. Just check Edmunds real TMV's of used cars rather than the fantasy future values cited. Lexus and BMW are the leaders (interchangably on different models) and Audi and MB are the cellar dwellers.

#11421 of 24723 Re: continuation [hpowders] by oac

Nov 22, 2005 (5:45 pm)

Replying to: hpowders (Nov 22, 2005 4:54 pm)
I wonder if you would be combing through the "not-so-small print" if the outcome was a little different, uh, maybe in favor of the Lexicans?
 
When people throw out links purportedly supporting a theory of theirs, it behoves the reader to actually read what is being linked and understand what it means. So I did what anyone should do - read the document linked. I bet those who threw the links at us may not have read the entire document...

#11422 of 24723 A Wish by hpowders

Nov 22, 2005 (5:46 pm)

Even though I am admittedly a BMW fanatic, I do hope the 2007 LS doesn't let me down the way the 2006 GS did after being touted as a "BMW 5 series killer" and was nothing of the sort.
 
If you can believe some of those photos going around, the new LS will be improved quite significantly in the looks dept.
Now if only Lexus will make a serious attempt to put a bit of fun in the handling dept.
If they do, I will be taking a serious look and test drive.

#11423 of 24723 Re: continuation [dewey] by oac

Nov 22, 2005 (5:49 pm)

Replying to: dewey (Nov 22, 2005 5:23 pm)
Among several model years you are selectively choosing among various models just one instance where a Lexus beats a BMW in terms of resalue values.
  
Seems a bit desperate!
 
I just picked an example. Rather than casting aspersions on people, why not do your own research, pick any other model year & car combo of your choice and see what you get, eh ? BTW, read Len's post #11420... seems to nail it.

#11424 of 24723 Re: continuation [ljflx] by hpowders

Nov 22, 2005 (6:04 pm)

Replying to: ljflx (Nov 22, 2005 5:42 pm)
Judging from the BMW and Lexus leasing figures, BMW with its high residuals and competitive money factors and relatively poor long-term reliability encourages one to lease and Lexus with its ridiculously low residuals (totally out of touch with reality), rather high money factors (except in December, yes I remember!) and incomparable long term reliability encourages one to buy.

#11425 of 24723 Re: continuation [hpowders] by oac

Nov 22, 2005 (6:08 pm)

Replying to: hpowders (Nov 22, 2005 6:04 pm)
Judging from the BMW and Lexus leasing figures, BMW with its high residuals and competitive money factors and relatively poor long-term reliability encourages one to lease and Lexus with its ridiculously low residuals (totally out of touch with reality), rather high money factors (except in December, yes I remember!) and incomparable long term reliability encourages one to buy.
 
Ahhhhh !!! This is why you gotta understand what is being peddled in these *awards*. Projections and reality are NOT always the same. You should ask those who told us we'll be greeted with flowers in Baghdad...

#11426 of 24723 Re: continuation [ljflx] by dewey

Nov 22, 2005 (6:39 pm)

Replying to: ljflx (Nov 22, 2005 5:42 pm)
Can anyone prove that the subsidies of a average Lexus lease are less than a BMW lease?
 
And if nobody can prove the above point then nobody can claim that the residuals of BMWs are highest as a result of far more generous lease subsidies!

#11427 of 24723 Re: continuation [bdr127] by oac

Nov 22, 2005 (7:00 pm)

Replying to: bdr127 (Nov 22, 2005 3:06 pm)
According to the linked ALG awards:
 
BMW of North America, LLC has once again made a strong showing by winning the Luxury Brand Residual Value Award for the second consecutive year.
 
Toyota Motor Sales, USA, Inc. continued a strong tradition in the Residual Value Awards winning four individual segment awards...
 
Mercedes-Benz USA LLC is the winner of this year's Sports Car Segment for the SLK and the CLK has won the Luxury Segment award for the fourth time.
 
Infiniti, a division of Nissan North America Inc., takes home the Near Luxury Car Segment award for the G35.
 
Notice the use of *residuals* for BMW and Toyota brands, but *segment* award for others. Notice that there was no single BMW car winning in any segment. How were these awards determined, and over how many years ??? Seems kinda confusing to me what this ALG awards mean, really.

#11428 of 24723 Re: continuation [oac] by dewey

Nov 22, 2005 (7:13 pm)

Replying to: oac (Nov 22, 2005 7:00 pm)
Seems kinda confusing to me what this ALG awards mean, really.
 
The residuals reflects the overall average of BMW models and it is that average that is highest when compared to other marques.
 
To find the segment information you will have to access that from ALG itself. The extra detail of segment information will not disprove the overall averages.

#11429 of 24723 Re: continuation [hpowders] by ljflx

Nov 22, 2005 (8:00 pm)

Replying to: hpowders (Nov 22, 2005 6:04 pm)
Lexus is coming around on this - slowly. Toyota is very conservative here. But the GX residuals are much higher than the projections they made in leases a few years ago in the first 15 months of introduction. So they have elevated that residual substantially - which is why it made the list - I guess. Hey - any bean counter would love the Toyota methodology. Any lessee has to make sure they get the best discount in the Lexus way of doing things. Winner in a situation like that is always the dealer which has to be part of the reason why Lexus dealers are the most profitable in the land. In the end the whole thing is a game. Discount the car upfront rather than residualize it high in a few years or keep the MSRP up there and increase the residuals to unlikely retained values. The latter is a cash flow game. Pricing has so many variables that you lose track of them after a while. But in the end it really comes down to two things - what did you pay and how much can you sell it for 3-5 years later. Everything else is window dressing.

Messages Page 1143 of 2473

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