Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#10979 of 24726 Mercedes, Lexus...again.
Nov 04, 2005 (8:18 am)
Same old stuff, just rehashed it seems.
The 2007 S-Class is "dated" and has too much bulk - though it has yet to be seen in person by anyone here. I'm trying to find an article that says the car has too much bulk or that it looks like it does.
Mercedes is struggling to find a new look for the marquee car while Lexus has been struggling to find a look for all of their cars and a "look" period for 15 years. Too funny. One questionable looking Mercedes-Benz (out of a mainly gorgeous lineup) and one freshly made non-ugly-from-the-moment-you-see-it Lexus and all of suddent Mercedes is struggling. Hilarious.
The average Mercedes buyers is a status seeker and the average Lexus buyer isn't yet these are both luxury car brands that along with BMW arguably run the show right now. Nah status couldn't possibly be a factor when Japanese luxury car buyers choose Lexus over mere "Hondas" and "Nissans" at the Acura and Infiniti stores.
I just love how status is something silly until Lexus gets mentioned in the same sentence with its Japanese competition.
Yet if you go to the 2007 LS board you can't read 5 posts before you see something about Mercedes-Benz. The truth of the matter is Lexus is the most wannabe, status seeking brand in the luxury car market and most of its followers (not all) are no different when it comes to what they want for their prized synthetic brand, Mercedes-Benz's position in the status world. Can't say a thing about Lexus without the hyped up prediction about how Lexus will do this and that to Mercedes-Benz, like no other brands are even present. Lexus wants to have Mercedes postion in the market so bad to the point where it has become an obsesson for its fans to talk down on Mercedes, even when they really have nothing new to say. It just can't be helped.
The new generation of the S-Class should swap places so one would know what direction Mercedes is going? Yet the new LS looks nothing like the current LS so I guess Lexus should swap places too then right? Sure, why not sell the 2001 LS430 (a knockoff of a 1992 S-Class) now and then go back in time and bring out the better looking 2007 model back in 2001 when Lexus was "searching for a look" for their cars. That way I'd know they weren't copying a Benz. Makes sense to me.
Mercedes following BMW and Audi down the Idrive/MMi trail is yet another grave mistake because the "press" hated it so much in BMWs. Yet this is the same "press" that is utterly clueless when a Lexus doesn't win a comparo (IS350) or when the talk about how lame a Lexus like the SC430 looks and drives. But wait, Idrive is despised by the market too. A market in which BMW continues to sell more and more cars in. It seems that now Lexus is suffering from BMW envy also in order to be able to make such a false statement about what the market "despises" in the face of such good BMW sales.
#10980 of 24726 Re: Mercedes-Benz vs Lexus - The Sequel [merc1]
Nov 04, 2005 (8:26 am)
The average Mercedes buyers is a status seeker and the average Lexus buyer isn't
Once again, taking something someone says and mis-stating it to the extreme to make your point. I didn't suggest that Lexus buyers aren't on average, status seekers, I only suggested that on average they care less about status than MB buyers, again on average.
#10981 of 24726 Re: Mercedes-Benz vs Lexus - The Sequel [syswei]
Nov 04, 2005 (8:30 am)
At this point does it really make a difference? The only reason this distinction is even made is because Lexus doesn't have the status of MB or BMW. If they did it would be harped about all the time, but since they don't it is looked down upon. Especially since we're running with the assumption of what the average Mercedes buyer wants, an assumption that was is routinely rejected in other arguments.
#10982 of 24726 Re: Mercedes, Lexus...again. [merc1]
Nov 04, 2005 (8:31 am)
Lexus is suffering from BMW envy
You have this fixation on "envy" and "wannabe". Sure, Lexus as a company envies MB's status, for example. What company wouldn't? Do you think MB envies Lexus' reliability? If they don't, they should.
#10983 of 24726 Re: Just a Thought.. [dewey]
Nov 04, 2005 (8:34 am)
The Sony products that fall apart come out of Malaysia and China. Not Japan. The stuff that Sony still makes in house is still as good as the stuff they were doing 20 years ago.
While South Korea is starting to become a force to be reckoned with in electronics, thanks mostly to Samsung, they are still no match for Japan's giants, Yamaha, Mitsubishi, Matsushita, and Hitachi. Sony is a bit player.
#10984 of 24726 Re: Mercedes-Benz vs Lexus - The Sequel [merc1]
Nov 04, 2005 (8:34 am)
I don't "look down on" status per se. Au contraire, I like status too. But I do look down a bit on people whose purchases are driven by status as their number one priority. Not every MB buyer qualifies, but more MB than Lexus or Audi buyers qualify.
#10985 of 24726 Re: Mercedes, Lexus...again. [syswei]
Nov 04, 2005 (8:35 am)
I'm sure all car companies envy something about another car company, but the big huge difference is that nowhere else but on Lexus boards do you read so much about the competition and how Lexus is going to destroy everyone else, namely Mercedes-Benz. That is so ridiculous to me.
Don't their cars stand on their own merits without the constant chatter about Mercedes-Benz, and now BMW? I think they do, so extreme envy is all I read into all this destroying MB and now BMW talk.
How could you possibly know that more Benz buyers are status seekers compared to all other brands? IYO is needed there.
However mis-guided it is, there are some who think a Lexus is more prestigious than a Mercedes. Audi well....you'd likely be right there.
#10986 of 24726 Re: Mercedes-Benz vs Lexus - The Sequel [syswei]
Nov 04, 2005 (8:42 am)
Blink Blink - I missed the first part of that post. You like status? So Lexus having more status than say Acura or Infiniti is a plus to you?
#10987 of 24726 Re: Mercedes-Benz vs Lexus - The Sequel [merc1]
Nov 04, 2005 (8:52 am)
Yes I like and care about status, but status isn't the number one priority for me (otherwise I'd be driving MB or Bentley), and there is only so much that I'm willing to "pay" for higher status, everything else being equal.
#10988 of 24726 Re: Mercedes-Benz vs Lexus - The Sequel [syswei]
Nov 04, 2005 (8:59 am)
Ok, so let us just say for instance that the Koreans push into the luxury car market. Say in 15 years time they managed to build cars that are equal to German and Japanese cars, but they didn't make up a brand name to sell them under like Toyota did for Lexus, would you buy one?
Say if it were made by and sold as a Hyundai for instance.