Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#10932 of 24726 Re: is this the high end timepiece discussion?? [oac]
Oct 26, 2005 (11:47 pm)
BTW, there are more Maybach's on limo linesin posh hotels than on driveways. What a disaster from MB.... And how much better to point to failure than to re-design your high-end S-class in the mold of the failed Maybach experiment. What were they thinking ?????
The difference that you're not seeing here is that the Mercedes S-Class is a known product, unlike Maybach. The S-Class will have a certain amount of buyers no matter what it looks like. Secondly the Maybach is overpriced in addition to being an unknown. They remain totally different cars and more importantly they're in different market segments. Maybach (and Rolls) developed these mega dollar monsters during a time in which the sky was the limit. Remember the Maybach concept first appeared at the Tokyo autoshow back in 1997. A lot has changed since then and they both overestimated the market for 300K cars. Rolls will always be Rolls, whatever that may mean to its buyers, but Maybach is a virtual unknown which is a huge problem for them.
#10933 of 24726 Re: CEO picks for cars [oac]
Oct 26, 2005 (11:54 pm)
As to marque or brand... it is MB fanatics that always uses this to trump Lexus, claiming that MB's prestige and marque justifies its lofty price, and the breadth of MBs offerings especially in the higher end where Lexus doesn't even compete, makes MB the marque brand. So now, we get Merc1 accusing Lexus owners of being snobbish... what an idea !!! What would you consider all these talk about MB being a higher brand, higher status than Lexus ? What is that if not snobbish
This because Lexus fanatics constantly say that prestige doesn't matter until somone mentions Acura or Infiniti. You know like in your defense of the IS350 on the other boards. Lexus can charge more because of this and that. Does that ring a bell? I didn't say Lenn was a snob, I said that was a snobbish remark and that there was far too many assumptions going on with that remark. I can't help it that Lexus fans judge everything by sedan standards and try to ignore other cars that MB and BMW make.....that are part of the mistique also.
What would you consider all these talk about MB being a higher brand, higher status than Lexus ? What is that if not snobbish?
I'd call it a fact, or pointing out the obvious. Nothing different than what Lexus defenders do when talking about Lexus in relation to Acura and Infiniti. Lexus having more prestige than Acura or Infiniti is a fact isn't it? Yep.
#10934 of 24726 Re: CEO picks for cars [oac]
Oct 27, 2005 (2:43 am)
and then you try to rub it in that buying a luxury car is itself an act of snobbery ! Wonder why you drive a BMW and not a Kia ?
It appears you read my post but did not understand the following:
Buying a luxury car is not an "act of modesty" nor an act of "being stuck up"!
Matrix which began life in the spring of 2002, 3+ yrs ago is not a car to be called renowned in anything, maybe cargo space.... Then you turn it around like my Matrix experience is already a myth about Toyota reliability ?
Accoriding to the passages of the "Lexus Bible" called the Consumers Report--the Toyota Matrix is as reliable as any Lexus! You know that same book that you use to bash German brands!
#10935 of 24726 Re: CEO picks for cars [gshocksv]
Oct 27, 2005 (5:15 am)
I have, thats the car I was talking about. The interior is not vastly improved. Its marginally better, but the only really noticable thing they changed is the black plastic of the center stack to a glossy black plastic. It definitely handles better than the previous car, but thats not saying all that much. The A8, 7, Maserati, and the new S will easily beat it in the handling department, regardless of how much they outweigh it.
I was not amazed by its luxury, most likely because I've driven XJ12s, and remember what true Jag luxury used to be.
#10936 of 24726 Re: Reliablity Viral Contagion! [merc1]
Oct 27, 2005 (5:38 am)
Now how does GM fix Saab?
Just like any other purchased brands, like Jaguar, Bentley, etc. the buyer gradually milks it dry, it may even turn a profit once in a while, like the zombie that rises every 10/31. Economic cycles are such that every decade or so, even the most atrociously run car company and most outrageously priced cars have worse economic excess/inefficiency to exploit. In case you are wondering, I bought mine during the fire sale after 9-11, for the price of a Saturn L series plus a song, it was a good deal, especially considering the additional safety features. Over the past few years, the rest of the industry caught up on the deep discounting, so it's no longer a relative value proposition, IMHO.
#10938 of 24726 Re: Reliablity Viral Contagion! [merc1]
Oct 27, 2005 (6:35 am)
Now how does GM fix Saab?
Just as financially strapped GM sold its share of Subaru ownership to Toyota there are rumors that GM may consider a sale of Saab. The most likely buyer is Nissan/Renault!
Saab with only 126K worldwide sales is known to be the most popular vehicle among academics and journalists. Is such a narrow niche worth exploiting?? I guess such a niche is worth exploiting with platform sharing and I do know there are large number of potential platforms from Nissan and Renault that can be share with Saab .
IMO it certainly beats the idea of Cadillac/Saab or GMC Truck/Saab platform sharing!
#10939 of 24726 CR's latest data
Oct 27, 2005 (6:57 am)
I can't find this on the CR site, maybe I'm just not looking in the right place, but the WSJ today says:
The reliability of vehicles from Nissan Motor Co. took a tumble in a new Consumer Reports annual survey, with four out of the five vehicles produced at the Japanese auto maker's newest Canton, Miss., plant making the dubious list of vehicles with worst predicted reliability....
The survey also didn't bode well for European auto makers, which didn't have any vehicles among the most reliable, or domestic auto makers, which only had two in the top 31 vehicles in the influential survey. Of the worst 48 vehicles: 22 were domestic and 20 from Europe....
Several DaimlerChrysler vehicles showed declining reliability in the magazine's annual reliability survey....
Of the top 31 most reliable vehicles, 15 were from Toyota and Lexus and eight were from Honda. The most reliable 2005 model? The Toyota Prius hybrid car, with only 4% of drivers having to take the vehicle into the dealership for service. The Infiniti QX56, that line's biggest SUV, was at the bottom of the list, with 40% of owners having to take it in for repair. Toyota also did well with older models. Its Toyota Tacoma was the most reliable 1998 model-year vehicle (as well as 1999 and 2000 model years), with fewer than one in four customers needing to take it in for repair during the previous year. Volkswagen AG's Passat sedan, with a 1.8-liter turbo engine, was the worst performer for the 1998 model year: Some 72% of owners had to visit a mechanic for repairs....
David Champion, who heads the auto test center for Consumer Reports, said the domestic auto makers generally are making strides in improving short-term quality issues. But as vehicles age, domestics start to have more problems than Toyota and Honda. "They're closing the gap in the newer years," Mr. Champion said. "The long-term durability is not as good."
The most common question he gets, he says, is for a safe-car recommendation. Though it varies by size and class, he says, the Toyota Corolla with optional side airbags and electronic-stability control is his most-affordable pick.
#10941 of 24726 Re: CR's latest data [syswei]
Oct 27, 2005 (7:05 am)
I saw the WSJ article myself. Also did you notice the chart that showed the BMW 5 series as being ranked among the top cars in terms of largest improvement in reliability compared to last year