Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#10870 of 24726 Re: CEO picks for cars [michael_mattox]
Oct 25, 2005 (4:35 pm)
It's funny, I don't even drive a Lexus, I am actually a very proud Jag owner. I have a lot of respect for Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Audi, Jag, Lexus (and a lot of other makes) because they all provide distinct styles, and have all created very attractive automobiles. I find myself defending Lexus because a few people don't want to recognize Lexus as one of the powerhouses when in reality they're. I myself don't really want to drive a Lexus because it's too common, and that's the reason I would not rush out and get a Mercedes or BMW... hence I bought a Jag (really like the Audi too) for its distinct and attractive styling. However, it does not make MBZ, BMW or Lexus any less prestigious in my mind just because I like Jaguar more.
I think people have to remember that most big companies, regardless of industry, have had a humble beginning. Before Lamborghini started making ultra exotic cars, they were making tractors! Diamler-Chrysler's Mercedes-Benz passenger car division lost a whopping $2bb in the first half of 2005, if it wasn't for its commercial vehicle division, which makes garbage trucks, buses, commercial vehicles, there probably would have been a reorganization (I do want to add, Mercedes-Benz posted a much more impressive result for the 3rd quarter). Even though Toyota was making small economic cars, doesn't mean they can't make luxury cars, especially when they're made better in a lot of people's minds.
I have to say, the new IS and the new LS look very hot, I am not planning to jump boat, but it's tempting.
#10872 of 24726 Re: CEO picks for cars [gshocksv]
Oct 25, 2005 (4:54 pm)
Hey, gs - I'm a big Jag fan as well, love 'em, every inch of 'em. The only reason I went Lexus this time, was the Jag was too hard for me to get out of, being so low to the ground. Once inside, it's a heckofalot more comfortable than the flat Lexus seats, (my biggest complaint) - but my left knee will not let me easily out and up. The Lexus is very easy to exit for me. That's the biggest selling point.
No question, the Jag will turn a ton more heads.....
#10873 of 24726 Re: CEO picks for cars [gshocksv]
Oct 25, 2005 (5:27 pm)
I've been a Jag fan since I first laid eyes on the XK120. It is, in my humble opinion, still one of the most gorgeous cars of all time. When I was finally able to afford a luxury GT convertible as a weekend car, I bought a Jaguar XJ-S. Terrible ergonomics and the wind noise at speed with the top down was unbearable (it is a '75 design), but those seats, the wood, the stitching, and the roar from the big 6, that made all of the XJ-S's flaws (and there were many) easy to overlook. Plus, the competition was basically a Benz SL, and while the last gen was nice, and could easily run circles around the XJ-S in terms of handling, I found it a very plain looking car.
While Jaguar has pretty much shed all of the problems of its pre-Ford days, it's lost a lot of what made the cars so special, and I think that has a lot to do with Jaguars failures of late. As an owner of two JSes and two XKs, I can definitely say that their interiors are not nearly as good as they used to be. In the JS, you could close your eyes and fool yourself into thinking you were sitting in a Corniche. Close your eyes and touch a some of the surfaces in the current XJ sedan, and you'll think you're in a Kia. I really hope that the interior of the '07 XK feels as good in person as it looks in pictures.
#10874 of 24726 Re: CEO picks for cars [lexusguy]
Oct 25, 2005 (7:45 pm)
A Kia? I think not. What an oversimplification!
#10875 of 24726 Re: CEO picks for cars [ljflx]
Oct 25, 2005 (8:45 pm)
But I'll tell you what - when I see an ordinary person driving home in a new S500 to a house that is worth 50% of mine I know he's just BSing himself on status. Besides, after three years his car is worth less - on top of that. So much for status three years later.
Wow what a judgement based on nothing more than a grand assumption! What it that person isn't into houses like you are? What if they like cars more than houses? What is an "ordinary" person? That is clearly a snob remark if there ever was one. Why is that a Mercedes/BMW buyers buy for status, yet Lexus owners are these meek, non status seeking people, yet they drive the most wannabe-status, "I'm a luxury brand to" luxury car on the planet? Lexus owners think status and prestige is bs or for German car buyers until you mention Acura or Infiniti, then you'll get a complete about face and a lecture on how Lexus has so much more status and prestige over a mere "Honda" and a Infiniti. Gawd that is hilarious.
#10876 of 24726 Re: Reliablity Viral Contagion! [killerbunny]
Oct 25, 2005 (8:58 pm)
Does it occur to you all these unreliable marques, except Ferrari, are actually dead? (Is Ferrari owned by Fiat now? Correct me.) They were forced to bankrupt and sold to other companies. Eventually, the new parent companies are going dump these money drain once again.
Actually no because they aren't. Lamborghini just wrapped up a great year in 2004 and is on track to have their best year ever for 2005. Hardly dead. Mercedes-Benz is far from being dead, and according to some of today's press they're showing signs of corporate stability. Ferrari has been owned by Fiat for years? Whats your point? Ferrari is the most legendary name going in the sports car world, more so than even Porsche in a lot of circles. They owned F1 racing until just this year. Of course that means nothing here because luxury car bordem is the order of the day. You only need to read anything about Bentley today to know what a bang up job they're doing. The only ones on that list that aren't doing so hot are Maybach and Rolls-Royce, but dead they are not. They made the mistake of overestimating the demand for 300K+ cars.
#10877 of 24726 Re: Reliablity Viral Contagion! [gshocksv]
Oct 25, 2005 (9:08 pm)
I think to say these companies are successful simply because of their better reliabiltiy ignores the rest of the picture. The reasons for each vary greatly, with the main one being they finally have a corporate parent with the resources to finally exploit their various talents while making the business case work. These brand's reliability isn't even tracked and people who buy these cars don't give two hoots about Consumer Reports or JDP - even if they did cover Ferrari, Bentley, Maybach, Lamborghini etc.
Bentley is alive because of VW's donating the Phaeton's platform for not one, not two, but three different Bentleys....all at prices nearly 90K less than only Bentley model left over from the old regime - the Arnage. That is why Bentley's sales have exploded, not because of their stellar reliability, especially using VW "stuff".
Lamborghini's situation is very similar. When you only sell a 300K Murcielago you aren't going to set the sales charts afire, but cut that price in half by offering a V10 engineered (i.e. money from Audi) sports car and all of sudden the brand is alive in a big way.
Finally, yes Honda did prove that a supercar can be reliable, but they haven't been able to capitalize on it. The NSX was surpassed and rendered irrelevant about 10 years ago.
#10878 of 24726 Re: CEO picks for cars [nvbanker]
Oct 25, 2005 (9:31 pm)
When I sat in a '05 XJ VP, and felt the inside of the door handle, it was hard, cheap plastic. I tapped a finger nail on it, and it had the signature Kia 3 cent plastic sound. On the one surface of the car that you're going to be touching constantly. I really cant think of a dumber place to cost cut than the door handle. The other major problem I have is with the seats. They're just plain 'ole leather seats, absolutely nothing special about them. They could easily have come from a Lincoln. They seem passable enough...just dont sit in an XJ12, or you'll see and feel whats been lost. This is what Jaguar seats are supposed to look like:
#10879 of 24726 Re: CEO picks for cars [lexusguy]
Oct 25, 2005 (9:33 pm)
If the new 2007 XK is up to snuff will it be a possible canidate?