High End Luxury Cars

24700 messages, Last post on Dec 01, 2009 at 12:24 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens

What is this discussion about? Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan

Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.

A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.

Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.

Outline

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#10715 of 24700 Hats and Rabbits by designman Oct 21, 2005 (10:26 am)
Computers are no magic any more these days! They may not be magic to kids who are born today, but I like many others have put some serious time in the trenches before the computer epoch. Because of this and remembering what my field went through in the transition period between 1984 and 1994, computers never cease to amaze me. I have up to 10 apps open simultaneously throughout the course of my workday and often think of what it what it would have taken in the old days with sheer manpower and money to produce what we can get done in one day today. When I think of yesterday and the tons of magic markers, rapidograph pens, airbrushes, 35mm slides, photo labs (we could go on forever describing horse-and-buggy implements), programs like Photoshop are pure magic to me and will be magic forever. They are magic because they enable incredible productivity. If car manufacturers can use digital power and ingenuity to enhance safety, performance and reliability, this will be magic to me also. The problem as I see it is that cars are too grounded in the mechanical world and those who design them have to distinguish between which technologies are truly useful vs. truly fashionable. As we often discuss, some auto companies are too smitten with tech as fashion. When you look at the lead Toyota has taken with hybrid and alternate energy, which has a ton of digital tech behind it, my inclination is to say yes, this is magic and is one of the ways it should be going. When Mercedes talks about using digital tech to develop accident avoidance, yep, I can sense the magic. Again, this is the way it should be going. Digital tech as fashion in the mechanical world? Not productive, not magic.
#10716 of 24700 Re: Have a look... [rl81] by ctsang Oct 21, 2005 (11:08 am)
Replying to: rl81 (Oct 21, 2005 7:20 am) You missed my point entirely. If computer is so easy to make, why can't those Germans make better auto electronics? Aren't they just a variants of computer since all are computer-controlled? You are the one that needs to grow up, man.
#10717 of 24700 Re: Have a look... [lovemyclk] by ctsang Oct 21, 2005 (11:12 am)
Replying to: lovemyclk (Oct 21, 2005 9:39 am) It is the Germans that underestimate the competition. Look at how Lexus beats their behinds. BTW, if they can't make a $2000 navigation system work, how can I trust the Germans to make a $100k car that will work? Replies to this message: lovemyclk (Oct 21, 2005 12:25 pm) ctsang (Oct 21, 2005 2:06 pm) dewey (Oct 21, 2005 6:55 pm) oac (Oct 21, 2005 2:40 pm) dewey (Oct 21, 2005 7:05 pm) and 1 more... rl81 (Oct 21, 2005 8:47 pm) lexusguy (Oct 21, 2005 11:48 pm) dewey (Oct 22, 2005 3:18 am) and 37 more...
#10718 of 24700 Re: Have a look... [ctsang] by lovemyclk Oct 21, 2005 (12:25 pm)
Replying to: ctsang (Oct 21, 2005 11:12 am) Let's see... I suppose there is no difference between an electrical component with circuit boards and LCD displays and a complex mechanical vehicle. Without diving into a pointless holy war on this matter, my 2003 530SP has been as faultless as any Lexus could hope to be, not to mention more enjoyable to drive! Also, I do believe Lexus and Infiniti have taught the Germans a few things that they have found hard to swallow on the quality production (i.e. Lean) front due to cultural reasons as much as anything. Maybe a wise idea would be to curb the generalizations, as most true enthusiasts here recognize the Japanese marques for both their faults AND strengths. Upon due diligence, you may find that the underlying electronics in a German Nav system may not be of German origin at all... maybe so. Does anybody know who the major supplier is? Replies to this message: ctsang (Oct 21, 2005 2:06 pm) dewey (Oct 21, 2005 6:55 pm) oac (Oct 21, 2005 2:40 pm) dewey (Oct 21, 2005 7:05 pm) oac (Oct 21, 2005 8:48 pm) rl81 (Oct 21, 2005 8:47 pm) lexusguy (Oct 21, 2005 11:48 pm) dewey (Oct 22, 2005 3:18 am) bdr127 (Oct 22, 2005 5:51 am) and 11 more... michael_mattox (Oct 22, 2005 7:19 am) lexusguy (Oct 22, 2005 9:12 am) and 23 more...
#10719 of 24700 Re: Have a look... [lovemyclk] by ctsang Oct 21, 2005 (2:06 pm)
Replying to: lovemyclk (Oct 21, 2005 12:25 pm) If Germans can get the same underlying electronics from the same place as the Japanese, why is it that they can't put them together and make it work like the Japanese? This make the Germans look even worse. How then can they put a $100K car together and make it work? Replies to this message: dewey (Oct 21, 2005 6:55 pm)
#10720 of 24700 Re: Have a look... [lovemyclk] by oac Oct 21, 2005 (2:40 pm)
Replying to: lovemyclk (Oct 21, 2005 12:25 pm) Without diving into a pointless holy war on this matter, my 2003 530SP has been as faultless as any Lexus could hope to be, not to mention more enjoyable to drive! I often wonder if the rest of the world drivers with cars and trucks do not enjoy driving them ? How is your 2003 530SP more enjoyable to drive than say my 2003 Matrix XR? That car is small, nimble, and tight; about the only negative is its puny 130HP motor. But when you get it going to the 3000rpm range, it sure moves... like every other car out there. It remains a myth of mythical (pun intended) proportions that those with SPs enjoy their driving more than any of us with our luxury cruisers... What if my ideal ride is a luxury cruiser ??? As to your other point: How about BMW or VW getting an in-dash multi-CD changer ? That ain't that much of a technological marvel to do these days, or is it ??? Replies to this message: dewey (Oct 21, 2005 7:05 pm) oac (Oct 21, 2005 8:48 pm)
#10721 of 24700 Re: 2007 Lexus LS pictures! [lexusguy] by nvbanker Oct 21, 2005 (2:45 pm)
Replying to: lexusguy (Oct 20, 2005 9:39 pm) "One thing I would like to see Lexus do is provide better chairs. They need to rip apart a Volvo seat and copy it to the letter." AMEN to that, guy...... Very flat and unsupportive....
#10723 of 24700 Re: Have a look... [ctsang] by dewey Oct 21, 2005 (6:55 pm)
Replying to: ctsang (Oct 21, 2005 2:06 pm) This make the Germans look even worse. How then can they put a $100K car together and make it work? Simply because they want their cars to be equipped with more sophistication than competitors. Unfortunately greater sophistication and complexity involves more bugs and a longer learning curve for the driver! BMW is attempting to dumb down and simplify idrive to the same level as their competitors. I believe I read that MB is trying to reduce the complexity of their Command system. If these endeavors do happen then there should be little distinction between a hardware/software bug attired in a Kimono or in Lederhosen .
#10724 of 24700 Re: Have a look... [oac] by dewey Oct 21, 2005 (7:05 pm)
Replying to: oac (Oct 21, 2005 2:40 pm) As to your other point: How about BMW or VW getting an in-dash multi-CD changer ? Oh man that is just so passe! IToday ipod is essential while a a CD changer should be an option for those geriatric folks! Replies to this message: oac (Oct 21, 2005 8:48 pm)