Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#10656 of 24723 Re: Merc [designman]
Oct 16, 2005 (9:36 pm)
Throughout today's activities I thought about what your response would be. I was right.
Donít get hung up on copying, donít place too much significance on it, and
please donít misinterpret what I was trying to say. If you re-read my post you will see that that Japanese styling gets no pass from me. You once told me that I am tough on styling. You were right and Iím just doing what I do. When everything is added up, the Germans score a lot higher on my styling score sheet.
Ok, got it. I didn't read that as you liked Japanese styling better than German styling. It was the industry comment that set off the meter.
Despite your most warm welcome I don't know if I'm ready to join DGCFC yet. I know your favorite, BMW has let you down every since the 2002 7-Series, but Mercedes hasn't done so just yet. Now if the muck up the next CL I'll be knocking on the door of DGCFC headquarters!
#10657 of 24723 Re: Copying isn't the culprit [merc1]
Oct 17, 2005 (12:38 am)
Yeah, the Euro Civics look much, much better than our version.
#10658 of 24723 Re: Copying isn't the culprit [lexusguy]
Oct 17, 2005 (9:37 am)
Is this a Photoshop or the real thing? Notice the cut-line indicating a rear door, but no visible handle. Front-end definitely an improvement over U.S. version - primarily with the grill.
Speaking of design, one thing that BMW has created with their controversial designs is a unique visual presence on the road. No BMW model can be confused with other marques, so still wondering about the earlier comment regarding Jag/BMW likeness!
#10659 of 24723 Design Directions
Oct 17, 2005 (10:56 am)
Is it me, or do all of these cars just get uglier as time goes on? At this point, I haven't a compelling reason to get any one of these! I was disappointed with the new S. The current one is a stunning looking car. If I had more confidence in the quality of the current S, I might just get one of those instead. Is it wise to think the end run of the current S will be better than those of the past?
I'm hoping the new LS460 is a vast improvement of the prior exterior design. The current design that I have is okay, not ugly, but not especially exciting to look at either. Lexus has been capable in times past of producing a sharp looking car. The original SC and ES are indications of this.
Another disturbing trend: The rush to cram all sorts of useless electronics in these cars. I wonder if there is a direct correlation with all this content and falling reliability. These toys virtually guarantee that you'll be forced to trade the car before the warranty ends. That's why I've resorted to trading my LS's in on a three yr cycle, as expensive as it is depreciation wise.
Perhaps I'm in the minority, in the sense I look to keep this cars for > 5 yrs. Maybe the automakers are catering to those who trade on a 3 yr basis like most here appear to do. Give me a Mercedes or Lexus without an air suspension, NAV, pointless Keyless Go systems, and all this electronic nonsense so I can concentrate on the driving!!
#10660 of 24723 Re: Copying isn't the culprit [lovemyclk]
Oct 17, 2005 (11:10 am)
Thats the real deal. I think the doors must open as on the Mazda RX-8.
#10661 of 24723 The door handle ...
Oct 17, 2005 (11:56 am)
... on the car above for the rear door is in the lower rear angle of the rear door window as a piece of black plastic.
#10662 of 24723 Re: Design Directions [sv7887]
Oct 17, 2005 (8:29 pm)
We sound like a couple of curmudgeons, but I have to agree with you (and designman?) that the current design directions leave me cold. Perhaps it has to do with the fact that we come from a time when the old Jaguars were the most beautiful sedans made, and our aging minds can't give them up as reference points.
In the name of differentiation, these manufacturers seem to be foregoing the concepts of "clean", "flowing", "proportional" - or are those just all "old-fashioned" rather than "classic, timeless" standards (designman, do tell)?
But Sam, I still can't imagine you tooling around town in a Corolla! Although I demand reliability, but I'm not willing to give up all luxury to get it. Like you, I like to buy a good car and keep it for a long time. But it is true that you can't justify anymore keeping a German car beyond the warranty, and even then you have to be willing to spend more time futzing with the dealer while under warranty than I am willing to do. And besides, since these days the manufacturers seem intent on dealing by inflating the lease residuals rather than by giving a discount for cash, you don't "buy" them anymore, you just "rent" them for a few years and then give them back.
Personally, I had been hoping that by the time I will be ready to give up my '05 LS, MB would have worked out its reliability problems and I could get a new S (which is what I really wanted this time anyway). But although in deference to merc1 I'll withhold final judgment until I see the new W221 in the "flesh" (or should I say "sheet metal"), I think I now have to keep my fingers crossed that Lexus does a great styling job on the next LS, or that an end-of-run W220 S-class gets such a good 3 year Vehicle Dependability Study or some such that I am willing to buy a used one (but I'm not holding my breath on that for sure).
Maybe it's time to go back and reconsider the Jag....
#10663 of 24723 Re: Design Directions [garyh1]
Oct 17, 2005 (9:14 pm)
The current Jaguar XJ is a nice improvement over the old one, but its just no match for cars like the A8 and the current LS430. Considering how long Jaguar takes between redesigns, I think they're in big, big trouble.
As if that werent bad enough, I read that Jaguar killed the plan to make the replacement for the S-type on a shortened version of the XJ\XK aluminum platform, because they just dont have the money. Instead, it will continue to use Ford's obsolete DEW98 platform of the Lincoln LS and current S-type.
#10664 of 24723 Re: Design Directions [sv7887]
Oct 17, 2005 (11:12 pm)
Well if you really want a Mercedes without all that stuff it is possible. You've mentioned that you liked the SLK or E320 CDI before? Well the SLK doesn't have all that those features you mention and the E320 CDI is available without Nav/Airmatic/Keyless Go etc. Its just the S-Class/LS level in which these things are more likely to be standard. I'm sure you could order a Lexus too without all that stuff no?
What I don't like about design nowadays is the trend towards taller cars with slab sides. Why someone wants a SUV like view out of a car is beyond me. A car like the Ford 500 is simply too tall. I actually like the little Scion TC, but its way too tall and slab sided for a coupe. This new IS350 suffers from the same thing as does the Bentley Continental GT. Cars like the Aston Martin DB9 stand in direct contrast to this unattractive trend. The new S-Class is really tall looking also. These new European pedestrian safety regs are slowly going to kill all the low and sleek looking cars.
#10665 of 24723 High End Cars and Shopping Malls
Oct 18, 2005 (5:57 am)
Curse my luck. My 1992 LS400 fresh from all of its trips to the body shop/dealer got hit Once again...Some fool must have hit it in the shopping mall. Ahhh!!!! I just spent $3500 having every little nagging cosmetic and mechanical thing done. I can't believe it!! It was perfect, absolutely perfect!!!
Well looks like I have to hire a private army to guard it. What is it about inconsiderate people these days? My last LS430 was rammed in the parking lot too. I think I've heard similar stories on this board too. Another reason for the grocery getting Corolla. Let 'em hit that.
The Corolla was just a fuel saving measure. It is a neat little car, though the lack of side impact and head protection really does bother me. My wife has taken an interest in it, and I'm hoping she'll steal that so I can get my 05 LS back.
She already is staking her claim to the refurbished LS400. It was HER who took it to that mall on Saturday where it got hit!!! Needless to say I won't be talking to her for the rest of today!
The E320 CDI is a great car. I can't wait until they sell it in MA. Pricing isn't too bad either. Why they discriminate against diesel in a time of a oil crisis, I'll never know. I think the vastly improved gas mileage outweighs any emissions related issues. Besides SUV aren't even subjected to the same standards!!! Aren't they updating the E Class soon? I'm thinking of getting one of those or just picking up a S350 which seems to be a great value for the money. I'm with Gary on wanting to pick one up in 3 yrs. MB sure knows style, I'll definitely give them that.