Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#10592 of 24726 Re: Merc1-reports [sv7887]
Oct 11, 2005 (8:16 pm)
Here is a good question for you: Out of the upcoming releases of the High end sedans, which one are you most excited about? (S-Class, 07 LS, etc)
Of course the S-Class is what I'm most excited about, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't waiting to see what the new LS is going to be like also. Its the only car that will competing wheel to wheel with the S-Class for a while. The A8, 7-Series and XJ all have at least 3+ more years to go before they get redesigned and the European press is already calling the new S the best car in the world. I can't wait to see what our press here will say once the roadtests start showing up next 2 months or so.
I saw an older Mercedes SL (90-03?) the other day. Talk about a timeless design.
Ah yes....you are speaking of the R129 SL, produced from 1990-2002. That is my second favorite Benz of days gone by. There are 2 older Mercedes' that I'm going to have before my time is up. A R129 SL500 is one of them and the W124 E500 is the other. These two Mercedes' are like my favorites of all time. Out of their current models on the CLS and CL are as "special" to me.
#10593 of 24726 Re: Land Rover [alissa]
Oct 11, 2005 (8:20 pm)
I've grown quite fond of the new S too, but that rear wheel arch keeps it from being the most beautiful car I've ever seen. In Mercedesland their true beauty is defined by the current CL, SL and CLS. Then it is arguable where the new S and others place afterwards, imo of course. It looks like I'll have to wait until Detroit to see the new S since Mercedes didn't have a ride-n-drive event in my area this year. Last year this time I got to see the CLS at such an event, months before it went on sale in Jan 2005.
Those wheel arches cry out for larger wheels, which is fine on most models, but some of the lesser European models are going to look undertired for sure. I don't like that.
They all won't look this good.
#10594 of 24726 Re: Panamera [designman]
Oct 11, 2005 (8:23 pm)
I see an awful lot of the Carrera GT in those pics and in that sketch. This is all good with me since I think the Carrera GT is about as awesome car that can be bought today. Moreso than the SLR or Enzo, imo.
I suspect flushing out the 997 lineup is more important in the near term than showing concepts. The GTS, RS, and Turbo have yet to make their debuts so I guess we'll be seeing those before any Panamera concepts.
Oct 12, 2005 (5:14 am)
The car is true to the Carrera look even with the longer wheelbase and 4 doors.
If the driving experience is intact you can ink another home run in the Porsche box score.
One caveat: Porsche needs to remember that each additional inch of wheelbase adds to ground clearance problems. The car as pictured is a real 'concrete muncher'.
#10596 of 24726 Re: Panamera [merc1]
Oct 12, 2005 (5:21 am)
Merc… Are you talking about the GT3 and RS for ALMS? To me the CGT has the Boxster styling genes. However, Porsches are Porsches so I guess we’re splitting hairs.
I like the look of those bolt-studded wheels on the S but these low profile tires are getting out of hand as fashion. Jeez, they’re for racing on smooth race tracks… I can’t imagine anyone wanting a luxury barge with them. I don’t even like them on the sports cars unless, as I said, they’re for track. For driving, I like the 17s on the Boxster and 911. You can’t even get 17s anymore on a 911 and Boxster S. Even some track rats seem to prefer the 18s.
By the way, I think I could like those fender flares on the MB S if only they blended them into the fenders with a nice wide-radius filet. It’s those hard edges that are really out of whack and jarring IMO. I think you will notice that the shots of the S that are most attractive are the ones where the lighting de-emphasizes the hard edges on the flares.
Yes, I can’t wait for the new LS. I am also very curious to see how the IS will sell, especially since they are really marketing the power of the 350 in their advertising. And I think we could see next 7 a year before the 7-year life cycle. Ditto with the 5 unless there is a considerable face lift.
Scott… we can ignore that ground clearance on the Panamera concepts… it looks in the league of the super cars such as Ferraris, Lambos and CGT… it just ain’t happening. As a matter of fact, I believe the final design will look considerably different. I think they released the sketch just to create some visual interest to accompany the announcement that they are officially proceeding with it.
#10597 of 24726 On the subject of sketches vs final...
Oct 12, 2005 (5:44 am)
I’m thinking of a preliminary sketch of the BMW 6 that was shown around 2000 or 01. Anyone recall seeing it? You can see the DISTINCT resemblance to the production car. However they look really different via shifts in proportions. I have it buried somewhere… will dig it up if I can.
I’m just rambling from one thought to another now, but another example of what subtle changes in proportion and angles mean can be seen in the Infiniti G coupe vs sedan. It never ceases to amaze me how similar yet incredibly different those two versions look to me.
#10598 of 24726 Re: On the subject of sketches vs final... [designman]
Oct 12, 2005 (6:21 am)
I think thats why the G coupe has been so successful, its not just a G sedan with the rear doors chopped off.
Oct 12, 2005 (7:54 am)
I think those flaired wheel wells are just plain UGLY...I think the 04 Mercedes S is far more beautiful.
#10600 of 24726 Re: Land Rover [merc1]
Oct 12, 2005 (2:10 pm)
As you may denote on the top picture, the chrome and arches are possibly going to have a negative impact.....When I was about to get the bmw, I had to steel myself for the possible impolite person who would feel strongly about the bmw design...I concluded that `I could take it`, but I realy don`t think that is the way to design cars...I think that Lexus will follow their `family` look , and I further think it will be good for the purchaser as the resale values will stay strong.....This is such a huge business that if a company misses, the previous purchasers and finance companies are the real loosers...I am sure the Mercedes will drive wonderfully, and if they then get the problems under control they will dominate if the price is competative....Lexus for the first eight or nine years represented a good value...They made their mark that way, and I expect them to continue on that course.....In the mean time I personally am going to give Audi a try, until all this settles down.....Remember the prices are pegged for the first year or so, and Mercedes makes it tough to buy a car.....Tony
#10601 of 24726 Re: Land Rover [michael_mattox]
Oct 12, 2005 (4:12 pm)
"I think those flaired wheel wells are just plain UGLY...I think the 04 Mercedes S is far more beautiful."