Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#10495 of 24726 Re: Experience with 2002 MB CLK 320 [lexusguy]
Sep 16, 2005 (7:58 pm)
Thanks for the reply lexusguy. I thought the Jags were the absolute worst offenders in terms of long expensive stays in dealers garages. Jag seems to be taking big hits in the reliability arena in the press lately...I have two friends that have had engines replaced within a year of new purchase..Does the 00-01 XK escape this dark cloud? I agree it is arguably one of the best looking cars on the road....and I would jump at one if I thought it would be "reasonable" in terms of service. I'm also looking at a 01 BMW 740i Sport...Do you (or does anyone) have experience with the XK? I saw one last week and it did MY head...I would appreciate anyones thoughts as I'd prefer not to make a $30K mistake.
#10496 of 24726 Re: Experience with 2002 MB CLK 320 [tiny1]
Sep 17, 2005 (2:21 am)
Yes, there's a silver '00 Jag XKR in my garage. Its my third Jag convertible, my first was a '96 XJ-S. Since the Ford takeover, Jag reliability has steadily improved. My '96 wasn't terrible, but it wasnt that great, either. The problems it had were all electrical though, no major mechanical issues. My next car was a '98 XK8, which was much better. It also had some issues, but not nearly as much as the XJ-S. My current R has again improved a lot over the '98. The Jaguar AJ-V8 is used in the Lincoln LS, the S-type, the XJ, and the XK. I've not heard of any of them being plauged with engine failures. I know I've never had to replace any of mine.
I own two Lexus cars and the Jag. The Jag cant come close to my wife's RX or my LS430 in terms of a spotless record, but compared to what I've been hearing from friends who have recent MB Es or SLs, its been fantastic. I think as long as you are very careful about making sure the car has been well cared for by its previous owner and is thoroughly checked before you buy, you should be ok.
I wouldnt recommend the 740i, those are just as bad as the Benz. If you want a BMW, a 540i is a much better choice.
#10497 of 24726 Re: Experience with 2002 MB CLK 320 [tiny1]
Sep 17, 2005 (9:00 am)
"Jag seems to be taking big hits in the reliability arena in the press lately"
Gee, I don't know what papers you read, but what I read is that Jag is something like Number 1 in its J D Powers category for initial quality, there is none of the chronic whining like there is with MB electrical problems, the i drive on the 7 Series, etc. etc. Jag seems to have its act together. The problem is that no one knows it because of lousy marketing and so sales are slow.
Sep 22, 2005 (4:39 pm)
Is everything o.k in the luxury world? As Warren Buffet said `` It would be nice to see everyone liked their stock and there was no trading that day``..He was referring to the commissins that could be saved...Tony
#10499 of 24726 And the company jumps when he plays reveille...
Sep 23, 2005 (5:23 am)
Alright, Tony blew the bugle, letís see if this unit can get moving.
Iíll respond with Porscheís announcement that it will be developing its own hybrid system in partnership with VW which is slated for Cayenne 2010. As mentioned before I expect to see it in or at least considered for Panamera which, if executed properly, will be an awesome sports sedan to begin with. You wonít see hybrid in an early Panamera, but in the general scheme of things, I think they will need to put a lid on fleet emissions and fuel efficiency over the long run. And there has been speculation that Panamera will be the Cayenne sedan so I would think it adds up.
One of the rags did a realistic rendering of the Panamera sketch released by Porsche. It has an elemental, rugged, down and dirty Porsche look to it. Low slung with the brake rotors and calipers bulging, kind of like a heavyweight boxerís muscles when heís dressed in a tuxedo, jacket off and slung over his shoulder. Among the elegant, gentlemanly vehicles in a high-end class that is mostly about business acumen and civilized luxury, Panamera will be like a young Mike Tyson showing up at the wedding.
What I donít understand is how Porsche will be able to finance development of both a hybrid system and new vehicle in Panamera, even if Panamera doesnít have a hybrid version. They are still a small company and both these ventures seem high-ticket. Were the Boxster and especially Cayenne sales that good over the past 9 years to provide an ample piggy bank? Maybe the CFO of this thread, Ljflx, would be kind enough to share his wisdom and give an opinion. Get out of that bunk soldier!
#10500 of 24726 Re: And the company jumps when he plays reveille... [designman]
Sep 23, 2005 (6:11 am)
I guess that means no deal with Toyota? Seems like everybody is less "optimistic" about clean diesel than they were last year. With even VW jumping on a hybrid motor, are there any "diesel fo' eva" hold outs left?
#10501 of 24726 Re: And the company jumps when he plays reveille... [lexusguy]
Sep 23, 2005 (8:37 am)
No details on the Porsche hybrid announcement other than a joint venture with VW. I guess that doesnít rule out Toyota involvement though, or licensing some of the technology. Iím sure they would love to be able to do it without them but it seems like a mighty big mountain to climb especially in such a short time.
Porsche could be on cloud-9 with all of the irons they have in the fire, like a rube who is still experiencing euphoria from hitting lotto (Cayenne). My sense is that they could be biting off more than they can chew. I would think Toyota could still wind up being their daddy on the hybrid account. Hopefully Porsche will come through.
Sep 23, 2005 (10:44 am)
A reporter for an influential U.S. publication is working on a piece about Mercedes and would like to hear from consumers. Heís wondering whether the recent quality problems are enough to stop consumers from buying Mercedes in the future. He also cites that Mercedes says it has worked hard to fix the various problems and is producing the best quality cars ever. Heíd especially appreciated hearing from any long-time Mercedes drivers around who agree or disagree. If you have a story to share, please respond to predmunds.com with your daytime and evening contact info., city/state of residence and what models of Mercedes you own/have owned, no later than Weds., Sept. 28, 2005.
#10503 of 24726 small experiene with hybed
Sep 23, 2005 (12:49 pm)
After driving the lexus H I was impressed ....It is a small step forward, but I think the biggest savings comes when the car turns itself off at a stop light....My wife got the bmw instead of the Lexus, and although it is ten thousand dollars more(could have been five thousand) it gets about the same milage....I think when we get use to these high priced gallons of gas,people will not spring for the hybred unless the price come down sharply. For me the gallons saved are not enough to really make a difference if taken over a year..I know if I were to be thinking (dreaming) of a Porsche I would not want the extra weight.....When wwest didn`t flat out endorse the Lexus I thought there was something to re consider..Tony
#10504 of 24726 Re: And the company jumps when he plays reveille... [designman]
Sep 24, 2005 (11:38 am)
Designman - They are a very healthy company. Cash is about double debt and Net income has been growing nicely to about $800+mln after tax. Healthy balance sheet, growing earnings - I'm sure Porsche feels pretty good about themselves these days, on a roll and putting their nerdy/"purist" auto enthusiast fans further and further into the rear view mirror. A scrappy smaller guy like them finds ways to do things economically albeit with a lower risk/reward return. The more full lined they get the healthier the business is and the less dependent they are on the singular car line the puriusts want them to hold to.How do you do it - partnerships, tie in suppliers/developers/partners to future revenue share, keep projects lean and beauracracy free and then have a nice bonus system tied to milestones being met at budgeted cost. Result - things get done effectively and cheaply, everyone wins, initial profits are not as large as they could have been but long-term equity is noticably enhanced and you are in the game at a deeper level. The operational key past development stage is to utilize existing production and keep production quotas to a niche position as opposed to really competing with the heavy hitters - sought of the way Tampa Bay had the Yankees figured out this year.
By the way - you've got to realize that many projects qupte a cost but it's not usually an incremental cost. Most of the time it's a reallocation of fixed or existing costs into one project. It's always overstated in Government spending. IE - they say the war in IRAQ costs X dollars per day, But 90% of those x dollars would have been spent anyway. We didn't add 150,000 new soldiers to foght that war. In the casr of cars I'll bet that one of the cost components is lost sales in the last "old" model year, and effecetively that is a real incremental cost. But typically that is made up with the surge of sales in the new model year.
Now I have a separate problem. My wife loves the IS and my son wants it as his first car. Can I send you the bill?