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High End Luxury Cars

24723 messages,  Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum.

What is this discussion about? Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan



Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.

A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.

Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.

Messages Page 1034 of 2474

#10322 of 24723 Re: I'm curious [ljflx] by merc1

Aug 16, 2005 (9:45 pm)

Replying to: ljflx (Aug 16, 2005 7:34 pm)
To see Merc1's take of the IS in this Lexus get together and then later the S-class when it's seen in the flesh. Merc loves MB and defends them to death but through it all he's objective and honest when he really gets down to business of analyzing things at a micro level. We may get on each other but many of us have been posting for years and deeply respect Merc's auto knowledge . That's why Syswei is also interested to see his IS reaction as per his post.
 
Man you said a lot there, thanks. You know I'll call it like it see it, even with the new S-Class. I too have seen a lot of pics in which the wheel arches are better proportioned. I don't even have a problem with the front arches, its the rear wheel arch where it meets the rear doors is where I think they could have done a lot better. Mercedes house of styling has turned out some less than stellar efforts in the Maybach and 2003-2005 CLK, and I'm worried about the new CL. I don't see how those spy shots will result in a better looking car than the current one, which is perfection in my book.
 
I've wanted to drive the IS350 every since I saw it has 306hp, a lot of power for a car of that size. It should be a real hoot. It has 4 more horses than the 1998-2000 C43 AMG!
 
BTW, "Brilliant Silver" is being phased out. It is now "Iridium Silver".
 
M
 

#10323 of 24723 Re: Merc1 [merc1] by brightness04

Aug 16, 2005 (10:10 pm)

Replying to: merc1 (Aug 16, 2005 9:31 pm)
Perception does become reality when the perception is on the part of people who are indeed making the choices between brand new MB vs. Lexus. Perception on the part of teenagers who do not even have a drivers license does not matter, but perception on the part of would-be buyers of these specific vehicles does matter.
 
There is a problem with counting numbers entirely on sales price. $57k buys a Lexus that is every bit as good as any MB south of $100k. $57k can't even buy a piece of crap stripper S class with V6, which starts at $60k. The reality is that MB is never gonna get that $60k because all those cars are leased with a la la land residue of $40k, but at auction time after lease turn-in the cars will be lucky to get $30k. In other words, MB is marking a sub-$50k car ($20+30k real residue) at $60k for MSRP knowing full well that the book will have to be reversed after lease. The market knows very well that MB's are not worth what the MSRP say they are; that's why most MB drivers lease. It's all a financial game that will come back to ruin MB when sales volume dips (ie. when the cooked income from the fake extra sale is no longer sufficient to offset the time-delayed book adjustment to fit reality when the finance department takes back a car that is worth substantially less than the projected residue).

#10324 of 24723 Re: I'm curious [merc1] by brightness04

Aug 16, 2005 (10:26 pm)

Replying to: merc1 (Aug 16, 2005 9:45 pm)
I'm worried about the new CL.
 
No need to worry; none of us here is buying the new CL. I'm considering a four-seat convertible for my wife, preferrably with a folding hard top. The choice seems to be either an SC430 or an IS350 if they ever make one. The thing is that she's already pregnant with our first baby; not sure if I want to keep a convertible after baby birth. If only MB and BMW made reliable cars . . .

#10325 of 24723 Re: I'm curious [brightness04] by syswei

Aug 17, 2005 (4:31 am)

Replying to: brightness04 (Aug 16, 2005 10:26 pm)
I'm considering a four-seat convertible for my wife
 
What they put in the back of the SC don't even deserve to be called "seats". Just try to sit even a 8-year old back there.

#10326 of 24723 Re: Merc1 [merc1] by syswei

Aug 17, 2005 (6:23 am)

Replying to: merc1 (Aug 16, 2005 9:31 pm)
I mean all luxury brands should grow at the same rate no matter what their prices are?
 
Actually, why not? As long as the price gap between MB and Lexus is constant, why shouldn't MB grow as fast as Lexus? Now, if the average gap used to be 15% and then went to 50%, of course you'd expect slower growth from MB. But if the price gap has been fairly constant (and no one has shown otherwise), there is no reason to expect a different growth rate.
 
Here's some evidence. We all know that the overall luxury vehicle market has grown quite alot faster than the total U.S. vehicle market, despite luxury vehicles obviously costing more than the average vehicle. Doesn't that suggest, that if price gaps are constant, price shouldn't constrain growth rates?
 
The fact that Lexus has grown faster than MB in the past 6 years has little to do with price, because Lexus has always been cheaper. It has to do with people's view of the desireability of Lexus vs MB....and in recent years that has been impacted primarily, imho, by MB's quality issues.

#10327 of 24723 "Iridium Silver" by syswei

Aug 17, 2005 (7:22 am)

"Brilliant Silver" is being phased out. It is now "Iridium Silver"
 
What a stupid name. Outside of a few geologists and metallurgists, who even knows what Iridium looks like?
 
Personally the association I make with iridium is the extinction of the dinosaurs....the 'iridium layer', thought to be from a meteor impact, is associated with that mass extinction. Not a smart marketing move to hook one's brand to the dinosaurs.

#10328 of 24723 Re: "Iridium Silver" [syswei] by ljflx

Aug 17, 2005 (8:09 am)

Replying to: syswei (Aug 17, 2005 7:22 am)
Lexus millenium silver at the turn of the century was real catchy. They changed it to mercury metallic now that we are distanced from that event date. That was crazy too because some people thought they actually stopped making the LS in silver. But you can't get a better adjective than brilliant in front of a word when describing a color. So whoever traded off the names should be canned on the spot and if MB really messed with the color itself I'd think it's a mistake. All lux mfrs must think we are stupid enough to fall for these silly adjectives. But in the case of MB their silver really has a jewel type brilliancy to it. That's why I'd think they'd be crazy to alter that tone.

#10329 of 24723 Re: "Iridium Silver" [ljflx] by syswei

Aug 17, 2005 (8:16 am)

Replying to: ljflx (Aug 17, 2005 8:09 am)
Yeah I like their silver too, I think I prefer it to Lexus' silver. The only problem with silver is that so many people like it, especially on MBs, it is too common.

#10330 of 24723 Re: I'm curious [syswei] by brightness04

Aug 17, 2005 (8:17 am)

Replying to: syswei (Aug 17, 2005 4:31 am)
What they put in the back of the SC don't even deserve to be called "seats". Just try to sit even a 8-year old back there.
 
 It will mostly be for the dog, and some bags and suit cases for the two of us. Wife wants a convertible some point in her life . . . we are both just past 30, and are about to have our first child . . . looks like it's either now or after a 20-yr wait till all the children are off to college. By then, we will be in our 50's, not to mention a really long wait.

#10331 of 24723 Re: I'm curious [brightness04] by lexusguy

Aug 17, 2005 (10:03 am)

Replying to: brightness04 (Aug 17, 2005 8:17 am)
The XK has similar seats, useful for bags and small suitcases and thats it. The XK at least has some trunk space though, the SC430 has enough for a cheese sandwich, or an orange, but not both at once. Its also an incredibly BORING car to drive. Frankly I think the LS430 with Eurosport suspension is a lot more fun than the SC. I'd suggest a Boxster S or SLK350 to start, and if you simply must have rear seats, then maybe an M3 Convertible or S4 Cabrio. Or, used XKRs are always fun, (I know, I drive one).

Messages Page 1034 of 2474

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