Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#10295 of 24726 Re: a history question [brightness04]
Aug 15, 2005 (5:55 pm)
>>> The BMW we talk about today is the post-1970 (after the 2002ii)
>>> We would not have 2002ii, much less any 3 series if BMW folded in the 50's.
>>> That's kinda important to the history of BMW, don't you think?
Indeed I agree with your last post which actually contradicts your previous one (10286).
Models produced by BMW before 1970 had impact on post 70s. BMW 2002 was evolution of 1500/1600/1800 model line. Z8 was inspired by BMW 507.
I mentioned V8 engine as a historical fact.
#10296 of 24726 Re: Lexux? [merc1] Wrong Framing [greenbelt] [merc1] [brightness04] [lexusg
Aug 15, 2005 (5:58 pm)
Lexus has a presence in Europe for a long time.
#10297 of 24726 Re: a history question [kga]
Aug 15, 2005 (6:17 pm)
Indeed I agree with your last post which actually contradicts your previous one
Agreeing with my last post you contradicted your earlier post . . ."what kind of historian/enthusiasts would care about the Isetta" whereas my two posts did not contradict each other at all. The BMW we know today is the post-2002ii BMW (the era of BMW sport sedans that many of us love). The 252 (252, not 252 thousand!) V8 engines that found their way into 1956 and 1957 BMW 508 does not invalidate my earlier argument that in the 70's, 80's and early 90's, when BMW reputation was being built, it did not even have a production V8 engine. That is a historical fact.
#10298 of 24726 Re: Lexux? [merc1] Wrong Framing [greenbelt] [merc1] [brightness04] [lexusg [kga]
Aug 15, 2005 (6:19 pm)
Lexus has a presence in Europe for a long time.
What's your definition of "presence" and "a long time"?
#10301 of 24726 Re: a history question [brightness04]
Aug 15, 2005 (8:24 pm)
Please don’t change the content of my post.
I never said: “what kind of historian/enthusiasts would care about the Isetta”.
Read it more carefully. It says “… Isetta sale volume”.
Probably I’m wrong about historians… the bookworm type.
#10302 of 24726 Re: Lexux? [merc1] Wrong Framing [greenbelt] [merc1] [brightness04] [lexusg
Aug 15, 2005 (8:28 pm)
"a long time"… Hmm, it is opposite to “has only just arrived”.
#10303 of 24726 Re: Merc1 [ctsang]
Aug 15, 2005 (9:17 pm)
For the money one pays for MB, even one, ie. me, gets stranded by the side of the road is unacceptable. And let me tell you, the dealer didn't treat me nice either. That's why Bussinessweek says MB is now a "quality has-been". Please read the article "Dark Days at Daimler" in BW before you post again. We all want MB to get back to "one of teh world's most-admired premium rands" again.
You have every right to feel that way of course. Doesn't mean that everyone else will have the same experience or feels that way, that was my point.
Survey after survey says MB's status is nowhere what it USED to be and you are the only one that stills says it's the same. Is this the power of ONE?
So now we're down to surveys about status or is it reliability? Too funny.
Rolls-Royce is number one in status overall, but that isn't the group of cars we're talking about. Rolls is with Ferrarri, Aston-Martin etc. MB is a mainstream luxury brand and of those (MB,Lexus,BMW,Audi,Cadillac,Infiniti,Acura,Lincoln, Jaguar) they are still #1 in status.
#10304 of 24726 Re: Merc1 [oac]
Aug 15, 2005 (9:27 pm)
I didn't prove a thing by the numbers, you say ??? Obviously you are very selective in your posts... Did you not read syswei's post on the actual sales numbers between MB and Lexus going back 6 years ??? (let me help you, its post #10185). As to using the wrong month, well using the right month meant that YTD MB had sold about 100K cars while Lexus had sold about 81K cars. There... Happy now ? But, here are the FULL numbers, not the selective one you'd like to trumpet: Lexus has sold ~170K cars + trucks YTD, while MB has sold ~120K cars + trucks YTD (see post #10088), a difference of +50,000 cars and trucks, and we are only half-way through the year.... Who is selling more luxury vehicles in the NA market ? The numbers tell the story clearer than any hype or spin....And please don't tell us how expensive MBs are over Lexus - they are expensive because.... yea, you get it. Excuses...
Well no you haven't proven a thing to me. I'm sorry Oac if you couldn't prove you initial point about MB not being the brand of choice for the high-end buyer. Because that wasn't true, you reverted back to the fact the Lexus outsells MB overall, yet no where in the history of this board did I refute that. Never. How could I? Then you stated that MB and Lexus were "about even" in car sales, yet you padded Lexus' sales by a month by using an outdated link about MB's sales. But now I'm being selective because you got the data wrong? Come on now. Now you're quoting another post about sales figures for the past 6 years to say something about MB's growth when again this had nothing to do with your claim about MB not being the brand of choice for the high-end buyer. I mean honestly how much spinning is going to be done to cover up the fact that your initial claim was proven incorrect?