Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#10200 of 24726 Re: Lexux? [brightness04]
Aug 12, 2005 (11:04 am)
Do you just make stuff up because it sounds good? I have never heard that rear driven cars have a significant disadvantage in cabin noise when compared to front drive cars. The drivetrain takes some interior cabin space away but noise is not a common weakness. To illustrate my point, just try to find any car over $50K with front drive.
Front wheel drive cars do have their advantages, they are simple and cheaper to manufacture and are generally better in the snow. They are practical but are less refined and have lower performance.
And your argument about the cost of a new focus against an old 190 is absurd. A new focus also costs more than a 2000 Lexus ES300. And Toyota's competitor to the Benz at the time, the Cressida, is worth less than half of a 190 of the same year.
And uniformed one, let me try to explain this again, rear drive cars can place its front wheels farther to the front of the car than front drive cars. Front drive cars have to have the front axle positioned under the engine so in any front drive car you will see a lot of car in front of the front axle giving the car less grip and making the car nose heavy.
In most, not all, but in most read drive cars, especially performance models, the front wheels are usually as far in front of the car as possible. Usually only the bumper is in front of the tires.
One other point that I failed to mention earlier, by having the front wheels drive and turn the engine, if forces the tires to do two things and greatly reduces the grip when accelerating out of turns.
And you are mistaken about the condition of my 190 if you think a base ford focus can beat my 190 on an autocross course.
In all my times at the track I have never seen anyone with the guts to bring a front drive car on the autocross.
You really need to think and check your facts before posting.
#10201 of 24726 Re: Lexux? [jtbenz]
Aug 12, 2005 (11:19 am)
Are you in the correct forum? This is about luxury cars, not sport cars. I suggest you get a Porche, forget about MB. BTW. Porche is going to make a four door vehicle. Will it be a sport car or luxury car?
#10202 of 24726 Re: Lexux? [ljflx]
Aug 12, 2005 (11:23 am)
You really need to check your facts, the 190 was discontinued in 1993 so how could they drop prices in the late 1990's. And above average compared to who, Lexus is behind, BMW and Benz, Audi, Infinity, Jag and the Caddy's. They all make models in the same price range as the LS but have better performance. Above average when compared to the Camary, But in the luxury car market they have only Lincoln for company.
#10203 of 24726 Re: Lexux? [ctsang]
Aug 12, 2005 (11:42 am)
Actually I have thought of getting a Porche but not as my primary driver, they are too harsh for long highway trips or for commuting. I don't know about the new model, I have never ridden in one.
And adding another car just for kicks is a bit too expensive for me to justify at the moment. Especially a new one. Those beasts are expensive to service too.
But if I did get one it would not have a back seat, I would get it to be a fun impractical car to drive on twisty mountain roads or the track, not as a commuter.
But for now I will stick with cars that can do both pretty well.
#10204 of 24726 Re: Lexux? [jtbenz]
Aug 12, 2005 (11:45 am)
Mercedes as a whole dropped prices in the late 90's. In your dreams I guess you can imagine Lexus and Lincoln are in the same category. The only thing they have in common in the real world is that they start with the letter L.
#10205 of 24726 Re: Lexux? [oac]
Aug 12, 2005 (11:57 am)
The boxter S is a two seater, and the C55 and the LS are close in cabin size and use and purpose. If you want to defend Lexus' performance credentials, find me one that can compete with the C55, any Lexus model, well? The car is a $55K mid-sized sedan, for heaven's sake not one of the v-12's or the SLR, but Toyota has nothing, NOTHING, that can match the C55 in peformance. Pretty sad isn't it. It didn't dawn on me until today. You would think a car company as large as Toyota would have something, any car that could go as fast as a C55.
Even the other Japanese companies have sports cars that can match or exceed the performance of Mercedes sedan, but not Toyota. Hmmm
#10206 of 24726 Re: Lexux? [ljflx]
Aug 12, 2005 (12:01 pm)
In performance they are, show me another luxury car line sold in the U.S. that is slower than Lexus.
#10207 of 24726 Re: Lexux? [ctsang]
Aug 12, 2005 (12:12 pm)
I am comparing model lines, so where is Lexus' performance model? For a car line that is the best in everything and a deep performance bloodline like Lexus, surely they have one? If Lexus is such a performance luxury car maker which one should I pick, hmmm Mercedes and BMW Audi, Caddy, all seem to have several, Lexus? show me that model that blends thrilling driving excitement with luxury and comfort that carries the Lexus nameplate, the SC? (chuckle)
#10208 of 24726 Re: Lexux? [jtbenz]
Aug 12, 2005 (12:19 pm)
the C55 and the LS are close in cabin size and use and purpose
Get real, buddy. They have very little in common. The US government classifies cars as follows:
LS - class: large, volume 123 cu ft (passenger+cargo)
C55 - class: compact, volume 101 cf
E - class: mid, volume 111 cf
S - class: large, volume 121 cf
Which is the LS close to, again?
#10209 of 24726 Re: Lexux? [jtbenz]
Aug 12, 2005 (12:26 pm)
where is Lexus' performance model
They don't have one, not in the sense of a AMG or M type. How many MB owners have AMGs anyway? 1%? 2%? Your question matters to them. Not to anyone else. Why continue to slam Lexus for not having an AMG-type offering? You don't even drive an AMG yourself.
show me that model that blends thrilling driving excitement with luxury and comfort that carries the Lexus nameplate
Two more months and you can buy an IS350. But some germancarfans (not merc1) are so closed-minded that they just "know" that Lexus is boring and tomblike, and such people won't even pay attention to the reviews as they come out, much less test drive the car.
BTW, what do you think of the Infiniti G and M?