Last post on Aug 01, 2013 at 6:53 AM
You are in the Saturn S-Series
What is this discussion about?
Saturn S-Series, Sedan
#163 of 1419 Agree with Dhanley
Mar 27, 2000 (10:57 pm)
I have to admit that I agree with Dhanley because not everyone thinks Saturn's are crude or terribly out of date. Consider them the VW beetle from years ago, good value to own, looks new for years, price increases very little from year to year. In fact, for the 2000 model year they have over 1000 new parts and a price reduction on some models. It is a shame that they cut production on the S Series, but the small car market is declining, and more and more people actually have some $$$ to spend on a bigger car. The L Series is selling slow due to poor marketing of the car, which Saturn admits was a corporate mistake. Just because thier sales are down doesn't mean their out, Saturns loyal customers normally return, and their will be people who will always buy a Saturn.
#164 of 1419 he's right (this time)
Mar 27, 2000 (11:26 pm)
what saturnboy sez is right. there will always be a certain group that will blindly support a particular marque no matter how mediocre or outdated they become. blind allegiance i guess. i have a SC2 and it's a so so car but for waht it cost i expected SO MUCH more and the resale on these critters is beginning to slip too. to it's credit it has been rock solid dependable tho (so far) but it is beginning to show premature wear on the inside, the sun roof has developed a leak, the dome light has quit (bulb ok)and i think i now have some warped rotors, lotsa pulsing on brakeing ? the car only has 28,000 on it so i hope it hangs in there till lease is up 12 more months.
the car just has been a bore to drive too, no fun. people prefer cars for different reasons and there is no accounting for what they like. a neighbor of mine had a fetish for Checker Cabs of all things. always drove cast off cab companies retired cabs, go figure. another guy here in town has 6(count 'em)Chevettes in his driveway. now that's really loyality!! maby saturnboy just has a fetish for the "wundercars" from Tennessee. sooner or later he'll see the light and move on to something designed in this century LOL. it's ok saturnboy we get a kick out of your rantings. keep them coming and i'll do my best from time to time to "rattle your cage"
Floridian, just my unbiased opinion
#165 of 1419 Saturn cuts production?
Mar 28, 2000 (2:55 am)
"but the small car market is
Focus - "Automobile of the year", "Ten Best"
Corolla / Prizm
.....need I go on?
Only two things can help Saturn at this point. Drop your prices (or negotiate) and bring out a NEW line of cars.
#166 of 1419 Twin Cam?
Mar 28, 2000 (4:59 am)
I have another question. What is a twin cam engine? Is it a better engine? If it is, in what way?
Thanks ahead for any help!
Mar 28, 2000 (5:44 am)
floridian: Again, what car are you proporting is better for the same money? You keep blindly repeatign that, and infering that anyone that likes saturn is a "blind supporter." Since you haven't made any argument except "unrefined" and "not a good value" without giving any real info about that, why are you not a blind detractor?
reg: Yes, the small car market is declining. What does the fact that you can name a couple have do do with that? Sales on most of those are down too, except for the obvious cases of new models ( focus, protege, golf ). Do you have anything to actually contribute?
Mar 28, 2000 (6:05 am)
There are 2 kind of piston engines ( generally )
overhead valve: The pistons turn the crankshaft, which turns a camshaft located close to it. The shaft moves rods which extend to the cylinder head and push rockers which close and open valves.
Overhead cam: the crankshaft turns a relatively long chain or belt ( chain on saturns ) which travels up to the cylinder head and turns a camshaft there, which directly opens and closes the valves.
Dual overhead cam is a refinement of overhead cam. In a single overhead cam, typically each cylinder has one valve each for exhaust and intake. In DOHC, it will have 2 of each, which allows the engine to breathe more easily.
Typically an overhead valve engine will allow you to squeeze a larger displacement engine into the same compartment, and overhead cam( especially DOHC ) will get more power for the same displacement, and allow the engine to rev higher and have a larger powerband. It depends on if you like the feel of a bigger lower-revving motor, or a smaller higher-revving one.
Saturn is different than most GM cars in that GM usually likes to use big overhead valve engines, but saturn uses a small(er) overhead cam motor. As an example, I had a rental grand am, which felt faster in the city, but also felt slower on the highway.
Mar 28, 2000 (6:49 am)
it seems as though its okay to point out the difficiencies of all other car makes except Saturn, right?
Seriously, now Saturn fans, lets look at different buyer price points and determine just exactly why other makes/models are in each case better deals (based on what you can actually buy the car for cash, based of frequently advertised price points).....
12,500 cash out the door.
Ford Focus ZX3 vs. Saturn SC
more comfortable and much larger and more stylish interior, better powertain, cutting edge style, far superior handling larger dealer network (more competitive shopping environment), awards won worldwide
-Saturn (if you can even buy a Saturn SC for 12,500)
plastic doors resist dings, free car washes
Chevy Cavalier vs. Saturn SL
Chevy- more room, nicer interior, larger car, abs standard, lots of dealers who will fight for your business
Saturn- OHC powertrain, plastic doors, free car washes
Neon vs. Saturn
-Neon more room, more power
14,000 sale price
Mazda Protege vs. Saturn SL1
-Mazda - superior powertrain, ride quality, styling, seat comfort
Saturn - plastic doors, car washes, don't have to look at the yucky 626 in the showfloor
Corolla / Prizm vs. SL1
-Toyota a reputation for dependability, product excellence and reliability (over decades) that is unmatched in the auto industry, cutting edge vvT powertrain
-Prizm can use GM dollars on essentially the same car as a corolla and save big bucks. No GM card rebates on Saturn.
-Saturn don't have to look at the icky Avalon on the Saturn sales floor
Contour vs. Saturn
Contour-much more substantial car, more room, better handling, more hp
Civic vs. Saturn
-Civic is an exmaple of superb quality in small car, superior powertrain, a little more space, contemporary style, holds value better
-Saturn maybe a few more features at this price point, plastic doors, car washes
Jetta vs. Saturn
-Jetta one of the hippest style cars out there, German engineering, decent features, equal room
-Saturn, even Saturn dealers are better than VW dealers
-Contour v6 vs Saturn
-Contour leather and v6, maybe evn a moonroof at 17,500. More room, more substantial car.
Even if don't prefer cars like the Protege, Corolla, etc. you just cannot say the Saturn is a better car (quality and performance) than the Honda Civic. Absolutely no way. It can't even beat the civic on price.
And for an overall desirability the Focus is superior to the Saturn in so many ways.
And if you are just a GM fan the Prizm and Cavalier are each better options in their own ways.
Saturns are pretty reliable so you can't really knock them about it, although I would really challenge anyone who says their quality can equal that of a Civic or Corolla.
Saturn, while a decent car, I think is currently in a state of the market where there are just too many other more attractive options when considering any of price, room, performance, reliability, style.
#170 of 1419 get the SOHC
Mar 28, 2000 (1:21 pm)
The smaller Saturn engine (I believe a 1.9L) is a bit quieter than the DOHC optional engine. You give up a little horsepower, but you will get a smoother ride and better gas mileage. If you really want the extra ponies the DOHC upgrade isn't much extra (I think about a grand).
regfootball: I agree with you on a couple of those, but the Saturn isn't a inferior as you are making it out to be. The 2000 model has been updated nicely and is pretty refined now. Go try one and see.
#171 of 1419 wotta list reg
Mar 28, 2000 (9:24 pm)
let's look at your list here, shall we:
focus zx3 : not a bad car, but new and unproven, especally considering ford's history. Let'
s look at your "points"
*better looking: not to me, buddy.
*larger and better interior: better is is subjective, and if you look at the sc vs the focus in real interior space, it's not that different at all.
"far superior handling and powertrain": based on what exactly? You were wrong about this in the tuarus thread too. Look at a 12.9K sl2. Less HP and torque, bigger car, yet has better skidpad and 0-60. Who has better powertrain and handling now? What is the reliability and safety of the focus??
cavalier: Is ok, but the interior is not nicer(IMO) or bigger.. And I had to rent one for a few days recently, so I know what I'm talking about. Look at the edmunds size stats:
Front Headroom: 39.3 in / 37.6 in.
Rear Headroom: 38 in / 36.6 in.
Front Shoulder Room: 53.9 in / 53.9 in.
Rear Shoulder Room: 53.1 in / 54.9 in.
Front Hip Room: 49.2 in / 50 in.
Rear Hip Room: 50.2 in / 49.5 in.
Front Leg Room: 42.5 in / 41.9 in.
Rear Leg Room: 32.8 in / 32.7 in.
Yep, that cavalier is totally cavernous compared to the saturn!!
neon: another car I had to rent for a few days.
Yes, much much bigger, eh? Actually, the saturn is a hair larger. And the neon has a few more HP.. But has the same acceleration. As before, you like the smaller higher-revving motors.. EXCEPT when they are on a saturn.
protege: Again, you claim the better powertrain.. Without saying what you mean. Better in what way? Your styling complaint. Are you ever going to raise a real point? I personally don't care for how it looks.
corolla/civic: Decent cars, but you don't make any points for them, just say they are "better." At the same price point, they will not have as many features, not have the same acceleration or handling, and not have the same safety scores, which is one of the main reasons I got my car. This is all not to mention cost of service.
jetta: equal room, german engineering ( i.e. expensive to fix ) , and "hip." Whoop-e hold me back. Actually, I really like the golf, and would surely consider one if shopping in that price range, but not for your reasons. Just to let you know I'm not a 100% saturn fanatic.
contour v6: such a great, desirable car ford is cutting it. Didn't this whole thing start over saturn cutting production? What does it mean that ford axed this car?
Again, I'm not saying everyone in the saturn price range needs to get one. Just that your "view" is absurdly biased against saturn. For some reason, you have to post against them despite not having one, or really having a legitimate or major gripe against them as norbert has.
#172 of 1419 This room is done
Mar 28, 2000 (10:23 pm)
I have decided that as much as I used to like coming here to veiw comments from those who know little or nothing about Saturn, and those who really know a thing or two like dhanley. I Won't be coming here anymore, Pointless comments/opinions coming from Flordia DUD , are a waste of my time, and everyone elses here. Rather then continue to see the demise of this room, I think I won't be wasting any more of my time seeing useless comments. I have no further comment. Period.