Last post on Apr 29, 2013 at 4:47 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Jaguar XJR, Mercedes-Benz E-Class, BMW M5, Mercedes-Benz E55 AMG, Audi S6, Maserati Quattroporte, Audi S8, Sedan
Feb 09, 2003 (2:51 pm)
As soon as everyone realizes that Mercedes isn't trying to build a track-biased car like BMW's M division does everything will be ok. That should be obvious to C&D by now. Mercedes has had since 2000 to study the M5 and go that route if they wanted to, but the clearly didn't. The E55 has an air suspension for a better ride over the M5 and previous E55, and no manual trans. Clearly they aren't going for a track car here.
The E55 has that high-speed stability that German cars, Mercedes-Benz in particular made such a desirable and sought after trait. The price paid for that is somewhat less agility when asked the change direction. Getting .83gs on the skidpad doesn't tell the whole story about it's overall handling.
#603 of 1045 No Manual Transmission, No Supercar
Feb 09, 2003 (6:21 pm)
Seems easy enough to understand. When will MB, Jag, etc. figure out that they need to offer a real manual transmission? And since they won't, maybe they'll finally put an SMG-type manual sometime down the road?
Feb 10, 2003 (7:06 am)
I hardly think the E55 not having a manual disqualifies it as a "supercar" especially when it outruns all the others in this class. Though I doubt they'll ever do a manual or SMG trans. If they're going to do that they may as well ditch the software and offer a good old-fashioned clutch pedal.
#605 of 1045 Supercars
Feb 10, 2003 (7:47 am)
merc1... When you think of truly classic Ferrari, Porsche, Lambro, Maserati, Jags, etc., do you think of automatic transmission models? Know I don't. [Some (not me) might think slushboxes were good enough for late 1960s 2 ton Detroit behemouth muscle cars, but even then collectors really want the manuals.]
That is why C&D, Automobile, etc. think and write what they do. Not too hard to understand.
#606 of 1045 Drive by wire
Feb 10, 2003 (7:50 am)
I too do not think supercar means manual transmission. Most of the race cars on the circuit are not the traditional clutch and pedal but rather electronic drive by wire trannies. Giving an inexperience driver a manual clutch and pedal in a car capable of 0-150 at 23 seconds is dangerous to others on the road.
Read in the WSJ that you can lease a Maserati GT for $999 a month for 4 years. This is for a car that lists for 88K. This might have some effect on the pricing/leasing on the E55. Then again, might not, as I am paying north of $1400 a month on my S500 with ABC and distronics.
Feb 10, 2003 (12:06 pm)
Thats true, but we're talking about sedans here, not Ferraris.
Feb 10, 2003 (4:26 pm)
I trust companies like MB and Jaguar knowing what the majority or their target customers really want... They do offer manuals in many of their more basic models. It's interesting that, as the price steepens, most of their models don't bother to offer a manual anymore...
#609 of 1045 Super Sedan vs Plain Old Sedan
Feb 10, 2003 (4:57 pm)
merc1... I thought we were talking about SUPER sedans. Super equals manual transmission. (Don't forget, Ferrari has offered automatics.)
pablo_1... Offering a manual transmission makes a certain statement in the market. Some marques want to make it, others don't. Jag and MB don't have the sort of performance image in buyers minds as say BMW or Porsche. That is one reason why both offer manual transmissions. It is just too bad MB and Jag won't get truly serious with their SUPER sedans.
Feb 11, 2003 (5:21 am)
A sedan with 469hp, a 0-60 time of 4.5secs, 0-100 mph in 9.8secs isn't "super"? There are exceptions to ever rule, the E55 is just that. Manual or not the E55 is every bit a "super" sedan.
#611 of 1045 There is SUPER and there is Super
Feb 11, 2003 (7:29 am)
merc1... All I can say is I completely agree with C&D, Automobile, and others who have opined that the lack of a manual transmission is a serious issue that does significantly detract from the desireability of cars like the AMG E55 and Jag XJR. They may be Super, but the M5 is SUPER.
For better or worse, having an automatic seems like losing 100 HP. Not to mention the loss of control. And the general loss of being in touch with your car. A slushbox in combination with all of the MB's computer-controlled braking, handling, steering, etc. systems might make one wonder whether you or the computer is actually in charge.